98 Four Winns Horizon RS Engine hard to turn over and a noise in the outdrive

[Buickgsman]

Hello all, I just picked up a 98 Four Winns RS 18' with a 4.3L Mercruiser engine and Volvo Penta SX outdrive. I bought it from a guy that alledgedly bought it in March from a guy for more than double what I paid. He didn't hear it run, but the original seller told him it ran great. Long story longer, my seller put it in the water in July and it wouldn't start. Motor just clicked and he claims he knows nothing about boats and just needs to sell it. Well I looked at it and the hull seems decent, interior is nice, and I confirmed the engine didn't spin. So, I got it home, checked the oil, which is very clean and had no water in it. I put a longer pry bar on it and it freed up pretty easily. I pulled the plugs and put some oil in the cylinders and I spun it with the pry bar a few times. It was still tough to get spinning, and I noticed a clunk every revolution. A friend confirmed the clunk was coming from the outdrive and not the engine, which was a relief. So, I took a better look at the outdrive and found that someone had pryed on it at some point to get it apart. Any ideas on what the clunk could be? Ujoint maybe? Is there any reason the outdrive would make the engine difficult to turn? I did a little reading on the Volvo Penta outdrive and read that they can be hard to take apart, which is probably why it had been pryed on. I bought the boat for what I would consider a good price, even if I had to put a short block in it. I'm hoping the engine is good, but I think I should probably remove the outdrive to see if the engine gets easier to spin. I tried to give the outside of the block a good looking at to check for cracks. Seems to look ok. Fingers crossed. Attached are a few pics. Any input is very appreciated. This is my second boat and I am very excited, so I appreciate any advice the community here can give. Thanks!

 

[Buickgsman]

I should add that the bellows in the outdrive look pretty new. Is there a tutorial to get these outdrives off without damaging them?

 

[mikemj]

put the drive down and see if the clunk goes away .i did the same thing and noticed the drive was up and see its not in gear.

 

[Scott06]

Ujoints and or gimbal bearing come to mind. Would suggest pulling the drive then spin the engine again. Probably water on the bellows and resulting corrosion.

 

[Lou C]

They can get stuck on because of cortosion between the drive & transom mount or if the bellows leaked the drive shaft could be corroded into the coupler. Either one is a pain.

 

[Bondo]

Is there any reason the outdrive would make the engine difficult to turn?

Ayuh,..... Much of the outdrive turns with the crankshaft, they're jointed by a spline,....

Pull the drive, feed water to the raw water pump, 'n see if it'll start, 'n run,....

 

[Buickgsman]

I pulled the outdrive tonight. I was hoping to find it all cruded up but it was pretty clean inside. I'm not sure yet what my clunk was because I wasnt able to spin the engine. I tried but I stripped the crank bolt (yeah I know). So I'm off to the hardware store in the am to get a longer bolt. I will report back tomorrow. I really hope I can get it turning. In my original post I mistakenly said the engine is a 4.3. It is a 5.0. I must have been typing too fast.

 

[bruceb58]

Never ever turn an engine with the crank bolt. You likely aren't going to get the correct bolt at the hardware store.

 

[Buickgsman]

No Title

I spent some quality time in the boat in the last 24 hours. Today, I spent a few hours trying to figure out why the engine is hard to turn. I removed the outdrive a few nights ago, and that didn't help. I put some more oil mixed with Kroil in the cylinders and spun it with a long ratchet(again, I know I shouldnt, but I have no other way to turn it over.) I am noticing that if it sits for any period of time it is doesn't want to start turning.(even after 5 minutes) If I get it going with a pry bar on the 3 pulley bolts then switch to the ratchet on the crank bolt, it will turn. Then once it sits, it is difficult to turn again. Weird. Next, after cleaning it yesterday, I noticed that the engine mounts are not in the original holes in the hull. They are forward of the original holes by the center to center distance of the mount( see picture). So I can only assume that the block is newer or older than what the boat originally had in it. Or, maybe it had a V6 originally. I suppose I could call Four Winns and see if they can tell me what it should have. Next, I removed the starter and found it to be completely dead. The solenoid is shorted to ground and the motor wont spin at all. I'm guessing they fried the starter when trying to crank the engine. So I guess next steps are to pull the engine and see if it spins over normally when not bolted into the hull?? Or, maybe an internal issue like spun bearings or rust in the cylinders. If I need to replace the short block, is it worth looking into one that would allow me to bolt the mounts in the correct spot in the hull? Would I be able to use the cylinder heads, manifolds, and all other parts on this engine?

 

[Lou C]

I think the issue is rust in the cyls that sat in there too long without the water getting blown out. I had a similar issue with water in cyl # 2. What I did was drain the water out of the engine & manifilds and fogged it they the plug holes right away. The engine turns over very easily.
You prob had a 4.3 V6 there originally. The source of the water may be those GLM manifolds. On my engine it was not the manifolds, it's either a head gasket or rusted/cracked head.
The issue of whether to stay with a v8 or go back to the v6 rests with the outdrive gear ratio. They are different and it does matter.
Drain all the water out of those manifolds and remove the risers ; look in the center exhsust gas passage for rust.

 

[Buickgsman]

Lou, thanks for the info. I found the ratio of the drive to be 1.66. Would that be ok with the v8?

 

[bruceb58]

That is the gear ration that comes with a V6. What pitch prop are you running and what is your WOT RPM?

 

[Buickgsman]

I have no idea. The boat is new to me and I couldn't begin to venture a guess on either question. How do I tell on the prop? What would dictate WOT RPM? As far as I can tell, it's a 5.0 if that helps. Is there a way to make this combo work? Or do I need to look for a new outdrive? Would I need to find the lower or upper portion? And, what ratio? Sorry for all the questions.

 

[bruceb58]

You might be able to make it work. Won't know until you try it on the water. Look at the what the specification is for WOT RPM and see if you are in that range. Just don't exceed it. If it looks like you will exceed it, don't go past the upper range and buy a higher pitch prop.

The prop should have some markings on it for what it is.

 

[89retta]

You might be able to make it work. Won't know until you try it on the water. Look at the what the specification is for WOT RPM and see if you are in that range. Just don't exceed it. If it looks like you will exceed it, don't go past the upper range and buy a higher pitch prop.

The prop should have some markings on it for what it is.

He is trying to get the motor to turn over as it is seized. Until he gets it running he wont be able to tell what his WOT rpms are.

 

[bruceb58]

He is trying to get the motor to turn over as it is seized. Until he gets it running he wont be able to tell what his WOT rpms are.

LOL...no kidding! He was asking about his drive ratio and if it was going to be suitable for use with his 5.0 engine. See post #11.

 

[89retta]

That is the gear ration that comes with a V6. What pitch prop are you running and what is your WOT RPM?

​If you know that them why are you asking him for something he cant provide lol,

 

[bruceb58]

​If you know that them why are you asking him for something he cant provide lol,

LOL....and once I realized that(post #13), I said once he get's it into the water. Post #14, of which you actually quoted me!:facepalm:
Anything else you would like to nitpick me on here or would you rather help the OP.

 

[89retta]

LOL....and once I realized that(post #13), I said once he get's it into the water. Post #14.
Anything else you would like to nitpick me on here?

Think I'm good now. If you ever need something let me know. Have a good night

 

[Buickgsman]

I figured out the prop size. It's 14 1/4 x 23 . I'm guessing that prop is best suited to a 4.3V6. Roughly, what size/ pitch prop would I want to get to best suited with the v8?