neglected mercruiser 2.5 - water in oil, dirty gas etc

thumpar

Admiral
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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
A 3.0/140 will replace a 2.5/120 without modding. It is not a huge upgrade but biggest you can do without new mounts and most parts from engine to drive.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
3 litre is a straight 'drop-in' swap. Bolts right up, and uses the same front mounting footprint. Same drive ratio too.

Best upgrade for a 2.5....

Chris.........
 

vroom ZOOM

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 15, 2017
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427
wil a 3.0 from a gen II drive work though, or is the coupler and mounting totaly different?
 

Bondo

Moderator
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wil a 3.0 from a gen II drive work though, or is the coupler and mounting totaly different?

Ayuh,..... The flywheel covers, which is the rear motor mounts, are different, 'n most likely the coupler as well,......
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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27,468
ok, engine is a 1987 GM 153 ill have a serial number soon
wil a 3.0 from a gen II drive work though, or is the coupler and mounting totaly different?

The flywheel cover for a 3Litre Gen II is the same as you have. Your 2.5L is an Alpha One, with the 10" rear mount spacing. That didn't change when they went to the Gen II...

The coupler is also exactly the same.... (I checked both flywheel cover and coupler on the parts listing, and both engines use the same part number)...

So, in short, yes a Gen II 3 litre will drop straight in with no mods required.

Chris..........
 
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vroom ZOOM

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Aug 15, 2017
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ok, found what seems a good motor for a deal. is there any way to check fro cracks in the block? anything else to check?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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27,468
Disconnect and plug the hose going into the manifold. Then use the water inlet hose from the transom to pressurize the block and head. ..
 

vroom ZOOM

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Aug 15, 2017
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ok, new motor in the boat. where can I get an alignment tool. does anyone know any place to rent one around me?
 

thumpar

Admiral
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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
I did the ebay route. If you ever think you might be doing a gimbal bearing or bellows get the kit that has all the tools to save a few bucks.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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It's a tool you (should) be using every year... Push the boat out and buy one... Cheap on fleecebay...

Chris.......
 

vroom ZOOM

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ok, im trying to get the motor aligned, but I cant tell whether I should go up or down. went from anything from down low to up high and it doesnt work. old mount height is also really bad. no matter what I try, no luck.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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27,468
I look into the bell housing (with the aid of a torch/flashlight) and 'eyeball' it to start with. You should be able to get it close enough to get a read on the tool. If you can't, then something else is out of position. Check you have the right spacers in the rear engine mounts. Check the rear engine mounts haven't sagged. Check the transom hasn't rotted and is giving you a port/starboard error... Check that the gimbal bearing is able to move in its mount by putting the tool into the bearing, but not far enough the engage the coupler and lift up and down, push left and right and make sure the gimbal bearing 'gimbals'...

Chris........
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
ok, im trying to get the motor aligned, but I cant tell whether I should go up or down. went from anything from down low to up high and it doesnt work. old mount height is also really bad. no matter what I try, no luck.

Are you using the right tool? Some of the older alignment bars haven't been modified to align the later couplers. Look in the stickies (at the top of this forum) and you'll find, among a lot of other really useful information, full dimensions for the alignment tool. Check yours is the right.... (or click here. https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...s/338200-miscellaneous-mercruiser-information)

Chris........

or just use this....

bar.JPG
 

vroom ZOOM

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Aug 15, 2017
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horray! got the motor started today! it tooka a bit of tweaking on the carb, but now it purrs no load at 650 - 700 rpm. am taking it for a drive today. but of course, there are a few problems, like the oil pressure gauge not working, but worst of all, or not, is there is a ringing noise coming from the bell housing/ upper drive area. any ideas as to what may be causing this noise?
 

vroom ZOOM

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Aug 15, 2017
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427
oil pressure gauge fixed, was a stuck sender. will try to post some pics of the boat to my ideabook sometime. took it out for a spin the other day. first ten minutes the motor was happy, no water in oil, no overheat, tacho works, until it just died and would not run below 1000 rpm. it would go above for a few seconds after idling for a few seconds, but that was all. while waiting in line at the ramp it completely died. I popped the linkage off to the TV and pushed it down. yep as I thought so, the carb was totally dry. I added gas to the tank and success! the motor ran well again. yesterday I removed the tank to give it a good cleaning when I realized that the tank was half full. the tank is a 17 gallon one and I added about 3 gallons of gas at the lake. there was no way that the tank was empty when the motor died. I removed the pickup and that was all good, its a metal pickup from the bottom of the tank. there only was a bit of debris in the check valve at the top of the tank. any ideas as to why its not drawing fuel from the tank when its less than half full?.
 

vroom ZOOM

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also, what happened to boatinfo? as soon as I need it it says "Account Suspended This Account has been suspended.
Contact your hosting provider for more information."
 

vroom ZOOM

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 15, 2017
Messages
427
ugh.. everything on this boat seems to be screwed up. now I'm having trouble with the trim. it will trim down but not up.tilt is fine. there are 5 wires that go into the handle to the switches, red(power) blue and white,(tilt) and green and purple(trim).first of all, trim down and tilt down(green and white) are junctioned together, then connected to a darker green wire that goes right to the pump relays. that seems weird. as far as i understand, trim is the drive moving slow, tilt is moving it fast, so if they are connected together how can there be a difference? the blue tilt wire also goes right to the relays as well.second is that the trim up(purple) is connected through the limit switch to the tilt wires. wait what? again how is there a difference between trim and tilt? I know that the trim up is not working because the wire near the limit switch is pooched, but still, how ist there a difference between trim and tilt, and how is the lower end limit defined? I know I have to rewire but boatinfo is down and I cant get the proper diagrams. also what is the other limit switch for? mine just has two ring terminals coming from it and thats it.
 

wahlejim

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
884
There is a trim gauge and a trim limit. Gauge sends info to the dash, limit cuts out the up circuit to stay within safe operation range to save your u-joints. Tilt has nothing to do with speed, it bypasses the trim limit. Sounds like that is your problem, trim limit adjustment or switch. It is there so you can raise your drive high enough to load onto a trailer
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Looks like Boatinfo is down. Has happened before. They may come back, they may not...

Ok, trim systems 101...

First up, need to know which system you have. There's been a lot over the years...
How many solenoids (1 or 2)?
Is the pump motor round or square?
Is the reservoir metal or plastic?
Where is your shift plate (engine mounted or up against the inside of the transom)?
Do you have a reverse lock valve?
Trim control panel or buttons? (panel mounted or control box handle mounted)

Click image for larger version  Name:	trim1.PNG Views:	1 Size:	428.8 KB ID:	10641532

Click image for larger version  Name:	trim2.PNG Views:	1 Size:	45.5 KB ID:	10641533

So, some of the basics.
The trim pump motor is bi-directional. To pump UP, the motor spins one way, to pump DOWN, the motor spins the other way. 3 wires (about 6mm) run into the motor, a blue (for UP), and green (for DOWN) and the black ground. Easy way to remember, blue sky above you (UP), green grass below you (DOWN)...

UP pressure is higher than DOWN pressure, usually about double. And be warned, these are high pressures we are playing with. Treat them with respect! The UP side of the ram piston is full face, so you get maximum force. The DOWN side has the piston rod on it, so it has less force for a give pressure, and it has less pressure... One common problem we see on trim systems is the drive won't go down, even with oil in the pump and the pump running. Most of the time this is a corroded ram end cap. The corrosion puts a clamping force on the piston rod and the force generated by the pump isn't enough to overcome it. Someone standing on the drive often helps it go down, but the end caps will eventually 'clamp' beyond that... But it goes UP ok, because the force is around 3 times higher....

On to the electrical side.

'Trim' and 'tilt' are the same thing as far as the hydraulic and electrical systems are concerned. They are more a definition of the range of travel. 'Trim' is usually the lower half of the range, and 'tilt' is the upper, or as determined by the trim limit switch adjustment... (more on this later)

The DOWN side is easy. If single solenoid, power goes directly from the trim switch panel/button to the pump. The wires will be fairly heavy, as they are carrying full motor current. If twin solenoids, then the current from the switch/button picks the solenoid. and that switches the power to the motor... (I'll include a circuit diagram for you once I know which system you have)...

UP side is a bit more complex, as it involves a trim limit switch (or a jumper wire if the limit switch has failed and the owner hates having to use the 'TRAILER' button all the time. :mad: :D)

UP is always powered through a solenoid. Power for the UP goes first to the limit switch (early model to about 1974 had the limit switch mounted below the gimbal ring upper swivel pin. Later have the hinge pin mounted 'pucks'). If the limit switch is closed (drive is in or near the DOWN position), the current then picked the UP solenoid. If the limit switch was open, or opens while the drive was going UP, as it reached the limit of 'trim', the solenoid would drop out and the motor stop. If you wish to raise the drive higher than the trim limit, the trailer button (or on the 3 button panel, the centre and top buttons pressed together) would bypass the limit switch and allow the pump to raise the drive to the top of travel...

Limit switches are know to fail, quite regularly, and as they are a PITA to replace, a lot of people just make up a short (1") jumper, with a male bullet connector on each end, and bypass the limit switch where its wires connect to the trim pump harness. Once you do that, there is no 'trim limit', the whole range, as far as the trim panel/buttons are concerned are the trim range (because the limit switch will never open)...

The trim gauge and its sender are completely separate to the trim pump harness and controls. The pump doesn't get any feedback from the gauge, at all. So the gauge and the pump are not reliant on each other to work. Each will work without the other working.

Hope this helps.....

Chris.........
 
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