2005 5.7 GXI-F spun bearings X3

[Monterey 263]

To all you engine gurus - I need help! BLUF: Three motors in three months have eaten main and rod bearings and we can't figure out why.

Long story: Engine had to come out at the end of last season due to water in number 7 cyl. After pressure testing, the head was found to have corroded through to the exhaust port. Thus total rebuild of the motor while it was out. New wiesco pistons, main bearings, line bore, new rods and rod bearings, new heads and valves, all bolts, essentially everything but the block, crank, and cam were brand new. Back in the boat it went, and motor aligned to where the tool could spin with two fingers easily. New gimbal bearing and seal too. Motor started and ran fine for about an hour and slowly started to lose oil pressure and got sluggish. Cut the oil filter open, full of brass. Pulled it to find the main and rod bearings trashed. Cleaned it all up, new crank, new line bore, new rods, and a lot of cleaning. Motor lasted 4 hours and same result. Not wanting to put the cursed motor in again, I bought a marine long block from a local machine shop already assembled. Bolted on the manifolds, distributor, and remote oil filter and lines. Dropped it in the boat, ran for perfect for about 7 hours, then it started to lose oil pressure and got sluggish. Cut the filter open again, more metal. Pulled it and opened it up, spun two rods, and ate up the rest. Now these are two different motors with the same thing happening. The only commonality are the intake and exhaust manifolds, the distributor, the outside accessories, and the remote oil filter. Thinking there could be some de lamination in the remote oil filter lines causing a blockage, I cut them open, and they were perfect inside, so there was no oil flow restriction. All the local shops are shaking there head and have no idea why this could be happening. I grasping at straws, anyone have ideas for me? I don't want to drop another motor in without know why this keeps happening.
2005 Monterey 263, Volvo Penta 5.7GXi-F.

 

[alldodge]

Not thinking of the 3rd motor, my first suspect for damaged bearings is poor installation procedures. Things like not using plastic gauge to check clearances prior to reassembly. Block should be boiled to clean out all contaminants. Maybe machine shop issue tolerances with the machines

The 3rd motor being a reman long block, then this throws out the first 2 and would look at as you did the lines a filter adapter. Next would be is the remote adapter being put on wrong? The oil comes out of the motor and enters the outside of the filter. Oil then goes thru the filter into the center and out and into the bearings If it was installed in reverse, then oil pressure would be ok to start, but then the filter would start collapsing and starve motor for oil.

Is the metal on the in side of the pleats/mesh or the outside?

 

[Monterey 263]

Thanks for taking the time to review. The lines were in the proper position. That was one of the first things we went to after the first motor trashed. All the metal is being caught on the outside of the pleats.

 

[alldodge]

Did the 3rd motor come from a different source (post no names) then the first two, as in the same machine shop?

If they did not, I have no idea how it could happen

 

[Monterey 263]

Yes, different source

 

[alldodge]

Hey Fun Times Scott Danforth Bondo muc kenny nunez anyone have any ideas

 

[Scott Danforth]

severe detonation

fix the fuel system along with the motor

 

[muc]

severe detonation

fix the fuel system along with the motor

Good guess, but I would think that would show up on the pistons first. Maybe they never looked at the tops of the pistons?

my guesses.
Really bad luck
bad break in
bad oil

 

[Horigan]

All the metal is being caught on the outside of the pleats.

If the oil is supposed to go into the center of the oil filter, then out the outer holes, per AllDodge's post, shouldn't the metal be on the inside of the pleats...?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Good guess, but I would think that would show up on the pistons first. Maybe they never looked at the tops of the pistons?

my guesses.
Really bad luck
bad break in
bad oil

On a fresh motor with tight bearing tolerances, the detonation displaces the oil film and the rod bearings eat themselves just before the pistons go

Lugging the motor while its detonating makes it happen almost instantaniously

 

[Monterey 263]

Pistons all look great. New Weisco and the tops are lightly carboned since they have virtually no time on them. Wouldn't severe detonation be felt in how the boat performed? It ran well, 4200 RPM for hours before eating this last set of bearings? And what would cause it? The computer controls the timing and fuel. It doesn't seem to knock, and wouldn't the knock sensors send it to limp mode before that?

 

[muc]

Pistons all look great. New Weisco and the tops are lightly carboned since they have virtually no time on them. Wouldn't severe detonation be felt in how the boat performed? It ran well, 4200 RPM for hours before eating this last set of bearings? And what would cause it? The computer controls the timing and fuel. It doesn't seem to knock, and wouldn't the knock sensors send it to limp mode before that?

There was a service bulletin on knock sensor’s with a poor ground not working. If you post a product or serial number I can search for it. Most people can’t hear or feel detonation in a boat motor.

 

[Monterey 263]

Thank you, 5.7 GXi-F 3869260 is the fist number, 4012132989 is on the second line.

 

[BRICH1260]

Improper break in? - You mention that you ran 4200 rpm for several hours. I just replaced my engine this year and I am not to exceed 4000 rpm`s until I have at least seven hours on the block. And even then, until I get to 10 hrs, it can only be momentary.

 

[muc]

Thank you, 5.7 GXi-F 3869260 is the fist number, 4012132989 is on the second line.

4012132989 is your serial number. This is the best way to order parts.

A few service bulletins come up.
28-3-2 Knock Sensor, fault for poor ground, probably not your issue. But does talk about using the correct sealer and tightening torque.
21-7-9 Priming the oil system, remanufactured gas longblocks. If your not doing this or doing it wrong, maybe thats your problem?
28-1-4 Ignition Wires. Forgot about this one. It covers some of the changes that came with MEFI4 and we did see it a few times on DYI/non-dealer repairs.

 

[Scott Danforth]

It ran well, 4200 RPM for hours before eating this last set of bearings?

Please describe your break-in procedure? you should be varying your RPM and load for the first 10 hours or so, and not running a constant speed.

 

[muc]

If the oil is supposed to go into the center of the oil filter, then out the outer holes, per AllDodge's post, shouldn't the metal be on the inside of the pleats...?

You have it backwards.

This is why some manufacturers don't allow pre-filling the filters. They found out people would dump the fluid down the center hole and introduce contaminates that will then go straight to where they shouldn't.

If you do pre-fill. Add the fluid through the outer holes.

 

[muc]

Please describe your break-in procedure? you should be varying your RPM and load for the first 10 hours or so, and not running a constant speed.

Volvo has this as a 2005 Monterey 268 SC. pretty heavy boat for a single 5.7

Could be a combination of a few things causing these problems.

 

[Monterey 263]

You all may have inadvertently stumbled on the potential issue. Detonation may be the culprit with two reasons why. 1) the knock sensors where replaced with a cross reference to an auto part and purchased from Autozone. Possibly could the knock sensor not being volvo have the wrong impedance and sending a wrong signal to the ECU and retarding the timing at various stages. Plausible? The other idea that may lead to some type of detonation is that using Weisco flat top piston, we went from a 9.4 to 1 compression ratio to a 10 to 1 without any tweaking of the ECU, not sure if that would cause detonation or not? But it's possible the higher compression might have an affect on the ECU which is messing with the timing. Thoughts?

 

[Scott Danforth]

doubt its the knock sensors as VP gets them from GM who gets them from one of two sources, unless you bought the cheap china sourced parts.

if you mess with the combustion mix..... you have to re-map the ECU. flat tops with a relief should be 9.4:1, however if you truly went to 10:1 and didnt remap your ECU, that could be the issue.

boat that big needs a BBC