Keel repair

[tpenfield]

shine a light from below (outside the boat) up towards the damaged area and see what it looks like from the same spot inside the boat . . . (take a picture too)

 

[Scott Danforth]

it may be worth a call to Chap's customer service. they can tell you if the filler they used in the keel was made of what material.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Boy... from the color of that, I wonder if that's all new(ish) damage. Looks awfully dark for damage that's only seen water for a couple of multi-hour outings. I wouldn't expect the substrate to be that mushy from only that limited amount of time in the water. I bet you could take intact flotation foam, hold it under water for a day or two, and it would take on barely any water. That looks concerning to me.

 

[badrano]

shine a light from below (outside the boat) up towards the damaged area and see what it looks like from the same spot inside the boat . . . (take a picture too)

Defiantly see light through the layers, but as far the soft area, can't see anything because the stringer is in the way.

 

[badrano]

Boy... from the color of that, I wonder if that's all new(ish) damage. Looks awfully dark for damage that's only seen water for a couple of multi-hour outings. I wouldn't expect the substrate to be that mushy from only that limited amount of time in the water. I bet you could take intact flotation foam, hold it under water for a day or two, and it would take on barely any water. That looks concerning to me.

The thought has crossed my mind that this damage was missed when the boat was purchased. Maybe for kicks, I'll call the marina to see if they still have the pics.

On a side note, are boat sellers (non-private) required to declare or point out such damage?

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Boy... from the color of that, I wonder if that's all new(ish) damage. Looks awfully dark for damage that's only seen water for a couple of multi-hour outings. I wouldn't expect the substrate to be that mushy from only that limited amount of time in the water. I bet you could take intact flotation foam, hold it under water for a day or two, and it would take on barely any water. That looks concerning to me.

I agree.....very concerning. A proper repair is starting to look like there needs to be some layups done on the inside to properly tie the damaged area in. That keel area should be very thick and strong, not soft and thin. I’d say that needs to be investigated more than what can be seen on the bottom.

 

[badrano]

I agree.....very concerning. A proper repair is starting to look like there needs to be some layups done on the inside to properly tie the damaged area in. That keel area should be very thick and strong, not soft and thin. I’d say that needs to be investigated more than what can be seen on the bottom.

When you say the keel should be very thick, how thick is that typically? I marked below where along the keel the damage is. Is the keel typically very thick from the tip of the bow all the way back?

 

[Baylinerchuck]

When you say the keel should be very thick, how thick is that typically? I marked below where along the keel the damage is. Is the keel typically very thick from the tip of the bow all the way back?

Yes, from the bow eye aft as the V runs and especially in that area. My 1990 Chap was atleast 1/4” to 3/8” glass with 2” wide core wood shaped to the V profile covered in roving. Like the transom, that area should be very strong, certainly not soft.

its really hard to determine what’s going on there, but given the photos, if it were mine, I’d want to open that up topside and repair it bottom up, then fare and gel the bottom. Unless I’m missing something.

 

[badrano]

My 1990 Chap was atleast 1/4” to 3/8” glass with 2” wide core wood shaped to the V profile covered in roving. Like the transom, that area should be very strong, certainly not soft.

its really hard to determine what’s going on there, but given the photos, if it were mine, I’d want to open that up topside and repair it bottom up, then fare and gel the bottom. Unless I’m missing something.

The one pic I got that showed a limited view of the inside, there's definitely no "traditional" solid piece of wood in that area. It looks like the fiberglass was molded in to the V shape and stringers along the way. I would guess construction techniques have changed in the 15 years between our boats.

I think my season is done. I was hoping to get a couple more cruises in but having a boat that won't take on water is way more important. Anyways, given October is around the corner, the shops are going to being packed with winterizations. This repair will have to be done in the off season.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Good decision. I would really want to dig into what is going on there. The gouge looks pretty deep. It’s definitely something than can be repaired by yourself if you’re so inclined, and have the space to do it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do there.

 

[badrano]

I’d want to open that up topside and repair it bottom up, then fare and gel the bottom. Unless I’m missing something.

I will agree with you on this because the more I think about and do research, I want to see what it looks like on the other side before I would start grinding away. The last thing I want is to grind away to the point where I get the unpleasant surprise when a hole through the keel opens up to get to undamaged fiber, because then opening top side will have to be done.

How do you open it up topside? I believe the obvious answer is to cut in to the textured deck, but then is there a way to close it all up without seeing the seams from cutting through?

Can fiberglass repair be done in 40-50 degree weather? I have no way to get the boat in to a heated garage.

 

[GSPLures]

You can cut an access hole and put an access hatch there. You could always make a makeshift tent around the area and a heater for the temp. Keep all the supplies in the house to keep their temps up and get the area you want to glass to 60 degrees.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

A hatch is a great idea honestly depending on where you need to cut. You could always use that hatch for storage when you’re done. What kind of floor are you dealing with? Textured gelcoat? Can you post more pictures so that others can chime in? There are definitely several ways of accomplishing this repair.

You definitely cannot do this repair if the temperature of the substrate is not at least 60 degrees. Many folks here have set up cheap tents with portable heaters etc to work in the winter. I had to use an electric radiant heater above my work in my garage because the temps inside got into the 50’s.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I'd be inclined to find something long and pointy (like an icepick) and try sticking it up into the crack to see how far it will go. If it goes in all the way (e.g., 6") I'd be concerned that section of the hull is badly compromised. If you hit a solid layer of fiberglass BEHIND that damaged area, the problem might be more limited. But getting to that area from the inside is really going to be the best way.

I restored my boat over a midwestern winter in our garage. It's not heated, but I was able to keep it warm enough using propane heaters and by being selective as to which days I tried to do temperature-sensitive work (e.g., glassing, pouring foam). Where are you located? A tent of some sort, with heaters, might allow you to work through the off season, if you don't live in climate that's really cold and/or snowy.

In any case, I applaud your difficult decision to end boating for the year. I think you are exercising some good judgement there.

 

[badrano]

What kind of floor are you dealing with? Textured gelcoat? Can you post more pictures so that others can chime in? There are definitely several ways of accomplishing this repair.

Based on looking through the bow area table post fitting sits in, I have textured gel coat (diamond like pattern), layer of foam then 3/4in?? plywood. I believe to access the area of keel in question, the portion of deck aft of the bow table would need to opened up. It's raining today so I found a stock photo off the internet. Red dot marks the spot. The helm storage has a carpeted plywood floor so you could go there and that would easy to cover up, but not sure if the spot on the keel could be reached unless you have some long arms. Wait, just remembered, there is a plywood panel separating the helm storage from the stbd bow seat locker. That could give a nice open area to open up. Probably could then reach the keel.

 

[badrano]

In any case, I applaud your difficult decision to end boating for the year. I think you are exercising some good judgement there.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I technically could slap some epoxy around the area to seal it up but I tend to be OCD about certain things and i think this keel issue qualifies

This coming weekend would have probably been my last outing anyways because the following weekend I'll be playing on Uncle Sam's ships for 2 weeks and October is typically when I start winterizing.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I would repair from underneath as well as above if you only have to open up the floor of a stowage compartment.

 

[badrano]

I'd be inclined to find something long and pointy (like an icepick) and try sticking it up into the crack to see how far it will go. If it goes in all the way (e.g., 6") I'd be concerned that section of the hull is badly compromised. If you hit a solid layer of fiberglass BEHIND that damaged area, the problem might be more limited. But getting to that area from the inside is really going to be the best way.

Gave it a shot....stuck a piece of wire in. Good news....only went in about 1/8 in and hit what ever is on the back side. Pushed a little harder against what ever's there and the wire didn't go any deeper. Even stuck the wire in at different angles.

Took another look at the helm storage and bow seat storage. Seem doable to cut out all that decking...would have to be in sections though.

 

[kcassells]

That seems pretty good. Maybe add a hatch if it's feasable to view down the line. Good for you.

 

[Scott Danforth]

it may just be a filler piece of wood in the keel. in that case, dig out a section from underneath and post some pics