215 sundowner transom

[happy cruiser]

89 four winns 215 sundowner with rotted transom engine beds seem solid is there a way to replace transom without totally gutting the boat and if the engine beds are rotted can the tops be cutt off and new wood blocks be inserted? Haven't pulled engine yet just getting my ducks in a row. Thanks all

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

Nope. The only way will be to have the motor pulled, get in there, and get messy.

As for the mounts, also no. You'll have to cut the glass away from them, remove any remaining material, bed new ones in resin putty, and glass them to the hull and stringers. This makes them part of the structure.

The way you suggest, you would have a really hard time cleaning the old material out, and still have to glass back over the tops anyway. You would also have a hard time being sure you don't have big air pockets in your bedding material.

It's gonna be a big, messy job. No way around it.

 

[Pmt133]

IF it is only the transom... I suppose you could do it from the outside. I wouldn't and chances are the rest needs to be done anyway. But just a thought.

 

[Scott Danforth]

The transom rotted after the stringers rotted

Replacing the transom from the outside is 2x the work for 1/2 as good a job plus you still need to pull the boat apart to take care of the stringers, saturated foam and the soon to be rotten floor

 

[happy cruiser]

Appreciate all the advice motor and drive are coming out tonight so the fun will begin soon, do the stringers usually rot first seems the transom rotted around incorrectly installed trim tabs but until the drive is removed won't know for sure

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

do the stringers usually rot first

It depends on where the water is coming in, how it drains, and how well the water can get to the wood.
Check the bulkhead in the front of the engine compartment too.

 

[Pmt133]

My 4winns rotted from the top down. The bottom of the stringers were solid while the tops were rotted. The foam on the hull was also dry. There were foam holes that weren't sealed that leaked water in every time the carpet got wet.

Typically everything does go though. My case wasn't normal.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Usually the transom rots from bottom up, and the stringers rot from the transom forward/ hull bottom up

Ritt usually extends forward past the bulkhead in front of the motor

 

[happy cruiser]

keyhole had decent wood but it is rotted at the very bottom so possibly caught it kinda early ends of stringers are soft at transom but unsure how far it goes. Tomorrow I am going to clean and bundle wiring out of the way and start opening it up, will report back

 

[Scott Danforth]

the two flotation boxes will have water saturated foam. that will have extended the rot forward quite a bit.

You have a lot more of the boat to de-rig

 

[happy cruiser]

the two flotation boxes will have water saturated foam. that will have extended the rot forward quite a bit.

You have a lot more of the boat to de-rig

Floatation box as in areas either side of the bilge from transom moving forward?

 

[happy cruiser]

What is the best way to make sure stringers and engine mounts go back in the same location once everthing is cut out? I think that's my biggest fear of doing a job of this nature it's not the labor or figuring out how to lay it up just making sure everything goes back were its supposed to be

 

[Pmt133]

Take a lot of measurements, make a drawing, take photos. The engine mounts its easier to just hang the motor on the transom, slide the alignment bar in and mark about where the mounts end up. I made a jig based on another user on here but there are a few assumptions that go into that... 1 your transom is perfectly flat across and 2 you know exactly where the centerline of the mount is going to end up.

When I did mine I cut the stringers tall. If there is something left of them you could cut them flush and make a template. I built a sled of sorts to keep the spacing correct between them so that I could just drop it right on the bedding material once made. I left the stringer lip in while doing the transom then marked the centerline of the stringer on the transom and up past where they ended in the cabin. I was able to use that as my centerline for bedding. Once marked I ground out all that. I also left the deck lip in so I could trim them to height. Then I ground out the lip and used foam to template the deck.

Your 215 probably has similar construction up by the cabin that mine had. They plated the plywood up there to 1.5 inches rather than scarfing and making a full 13 foot stinger or so. When I rebuilt its just 3/4 straight up. The trim on the step down into your cabin is probably only half inch or so. Mine is now 1.5 to retain the original opening and door hardware.

I was nervous too but as you start peeling it back you'll see what you need to do.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

Tape measure and drawing diagrams. The stringers will be fairly easy, they usually sit in a strake. Height is a bigger challenge. Leave them a bit tall, then cut them down to size once they're glassed in. Easier to trim than to correct if they're cut too low.

For motor mounts, just use your measurements.

 

[happy cruiser]

So best way to get started would be to rip up decking and work down from there, get foam out then start drawing it up with measurements?

 

[Pmt133]

I measured the deck bulkhead to the cabin, side box width, where the cutout for the engine was, where the seats were, any visible bulkheads all to one point of reference. Hatch locations etc. I measured transom forward. What you'll find is nothing is anywhere near perfect.

From there I cut the deck out and measured stringer location and on center spacing of them. I had 4 "stringers". The two main about 25 inches apart on center. These were heavily glassed in and the deck was stapled to the uncapped tops of them. Then two more 14 inches on center to the main center ones. These were glassed in on 1 side and were just dimensional lumber. I assume they were to simply support the span of the deck. When I rebuilt I made them structural. Looked like this:


I used a shovel to break the foam. You can see there were no structural bulkheads in the foam cavity.


And this is what I built back:


Note I gave myself wood to nail to. Water should never get in the inner cavities and the one where the fuel tank is the 1708 on the deck runs down to the floor making the hull side and stringer all bonded together as one. The horizontal plywood is there for the deck seam. It is the only location there is a seam.

This is foamed and half glassed:

 

[happy cruiser]

I measured the deck bulkhead to the cabin, side box width, where the cutout for the engine was, where the seats were, any visible bulkheads all to one point of reference. Hatch locations etc. I measured transom forward. What you'll find is nothing is anywhere near perfect.

From there I cut the deck out and measured stringer location and on center spacing of them. I had 4 "stringers". The two main about 25 inches apart on center. These were heavily glassed in and the deck was stapled to the uncapped tops of them. Then two more 14 inches on center to the main center ones. These were glassed in on 1 side and were just dimensional lumber. I assume they were to simply support the span of the deck. When I rebuilt I made them structural. Looked like this:
View attachment 411579

I used a shovel to break the foam. You can see there were no structural bulkheads in the foam cavity.
View attachment 411578

And this is what I built back:
View attachment 411577

Note I gave myself wood to nail to. Water should never get in the inner cavities and the one where the fuel tank is the 1708 on the deck runs down to the floor making the hull side and stringer all bonded together as one. The horizontal plywood is there for the deck seam. It is the only location there is a seam.

This is foamed and half glassed:
View attachment 411580

The pictures definitely help me see what I'll be getting into thank you

 

[happy cruiser]

Pmt133 how much do you think you had in supplies and did you do the transom also?

 

[Pmt133]

Pmt133 how much do you think you had in supplies and did you do the transom also?

The only original wood left were the sides of the cabin walls. I went very overboard and completely rerigged as well.

Included in my price list is tools, extra equipment, cables, electrical, upholstery the engine rebuild, transom bellows and reseal, all bushings steering etc. I came up with $18,000 for all that to date. That being said I now essentially have a very turn key 40 year old boat.

That being said, realistically, my numbers were as follows:
$2900 us composites
$600 for wood. (I have 2 full unused sheets of 3/4 left over. But that was 6 sheets 3/4 and 6 1/2")
$800 in PPE
$1000 for consumables, rollers brushes, screws adhesive etc.

To get a rolling estimate to get a floor and transom in the thing... $6000 is about the bare minimum assuming everything else is fine and you have all the wood working tools needed to do it. And thats 6k into a boat thats worth about 6k.

Carpet was $400. Bow hatch $500. Rigging almost $2000. I did a remote oil filter conversion... it adds up quick depending what you want. Random hardware and crap... that **** nickel and dimes you.

So how far do you want to go?

If you want to read through my mess, my thread is here. (Some people only use mobile site so signatures are not visible) thag should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

 

[happy cruiser]

Heck of a writeup I'm about halfway through reading it, i will be digging deeper tomorrow and see how far I'm going to be into it and see what the wife thinks and go from there