New Stuff on Vehicles likes/dislikes

[Jeff J]

For awhile, I was going to build an airplane. I was not going to go the carb and points route. I was going to use fuel injection and a modern electronic ignition.

Aircraft have simple systems because they don’t screw up very often. I have an electronic magneto on one of mine. It’s a lot better than the standard fixed timing magnetos of old.

It’s possible to get too modern. Some of the sensors do not play well with leaded fuel and some components do not handle the radical temperature swings possible very well. Aviation is getting there but leaving forties technology behind is a slow process (mostly because of frivolous lawsuits).

 

[Lou C]

If electronic ignition and EFI are more reliable and I think they definitely are, that's what you want in an airplane.
One curiosity I have is why EFI seems to be less reliable in boats, than in vehicles. It might be that in a boat you can't have the electric pump in the tank pushing forward, it has to suck fuel from the tank, and any restrictions cause problems (stuck anti siphon valves, pick up tube screens, etc).
Also in the damp marine environment (here we have salt air too) all those terminal connectors eventually get green corrosion, also the bases of relays, as well, and cause intermittent problems. With points all you have is the 2 terminals on the ignition coil, the positive lead that goes into the distributor and is hooked up to the points. With a mechanical fuel pump, no relays, nothing. There are just less places for current flow to be interrupted.
Even with outboards with E10 fuel there are issues with EFI specifically the VST tank, if not drained can get deposits in it that cause trouble exactly like a carb.

 

[bruceb58]

Even with outboards with E10 fuel there are issues with EFI specifically the VST tank, if not drained can get deposits in it that cause trouble exactly like a carb.

Never had an issue.

 

[Pmt133]

100LL is some strong stuff... yeah aviation is a whole different world I'm glad I don't deal with.

 

[Jeff J]

100LL is some strong stuff... yeah aviation is a whole different world I'm glad I don't deal with.

Gasoline is gasoline. Not any real difference in energy produced if using the same amount of 86 octane and 100 octane (please research BEFORE telling me how wrong I am). Higher octane is more stable to help with detonation and as a result allows the use of more fuel which creates more power and heat while increasing the chance of detonation.

It’s the lead that is the problem in modern engine systems. It ruins O2 sensors and plugs catalytic converters pretty fast. I learned about catalytic converters shortly after running out of gas in front of the airport when I was a kid. I bought 5 gallons of avgas and pressed on. A week or so later I was getting sprayed with gasoline every time I removed the gas cap. Not long after that the car quit running right. Not sure what else might be affected.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Don't airplane motors still need 2 ignition systems?

 

[alldodge]

Gasoline is gasoline.

As G Dad always said , first lair doesn't stand a chance

True gas is gas, but the higher octane the higher the temps can become before per-ignition

But on other things of "likes"
Every time I connect a trailer (new or old) the truck starts automatically turning on lights and turn signals. ON, break, left turn, right turn, reverse and continues that until I stop it. Great way to check all the lights and ensure they work

 

[Lou C]

Never had an issue.

are you running E10 or E0?
What's the humidity where the boat is stored?

 

[Pmt133]

Gasoline is gasoline. Not any real difference in energy produced if using the same amount of 86 octane and 100 octane (please research BEFORE telling me how wrong I am). Higher octane is more stable to help with detonation and as a result allows the use of more fuel which creates more power and heat while increasing the chance of detonation.

It’s the lead that is the problem in modern engine systems. It ruins O2 sensors and plugs catalytic converters pretty fast. I learned about catalytic converters shortly after running out of gas in front of the airport when I was a kid. I bought 5 gallons of avgas and pressed on. A week or so later I was getting sprayed with gasoline every time I removed the gas cap. Not long after that the car quit running right. Not sure what else might be affected.

I meant in regards to the lead content... it's strong as in it attacks a lot of things most people wouldn't think about... and poisons O2s and cats like you said. It also attacks bearings and some other metals.... Strong stuff I am glad I don't have to deal with.

Been a while but I seem to remember higher octane fuel having slightly lower energy content... though its like really really insignificant. Sorry, should have been more specific.

 

[jlh3rd]

Don't airplane motors still need 2 ignition systems?

recip engines for general aviation like lycoming , continental ...twin magnetos, 2 plugs/cylinder.
Can't speak for other engines and experimental/homebuilt .

 

[flashback]

It’s the lead that is the problem in modern engine sysystemsd.

I didn't think today's fuels had lead in them

 

[bruceb58]

Don't airplane motors still need 2 ignition systems?

Yes...even the electronic systems are dual redundant. They just don't use points like the old systems.

 

[bruceb58]

are you running E10 or E0?
What's the humidity where the boat is stored?

E10...it's the only gas we can buy.

Humidity varies but external humidity is a ZERO issue inside a fuel tank. There isn't enough volume even with an empty tank and 100% humidity to create enough condensation to be a problem. Humidity is a myth in regards to E10 fuel.

 

[bruceb58]

recip engines for general aviation like lycoming , continental ...twin magnetos, 2 plugs/cylinder.
Can't speak for other engines and experimental/homebuilt .

The plane I was going to build is obviously experimental and it would have had a Lycoming.

 

[roscoe]

Every time I connect a trailer (new or old) the truck starts automatically turning on lights and turn signals. ON, break, left turn, right turn, reverse and continues that until I stop it. Great way to check all the lights and ensure they work

Interesting.
But would confuse the poop out of most guys I know.
I turn on the lights and hit the hazard lights to check the trailer lights.
Even this confuses a few people I know.

 

[Lou C]

E10...it's the only gas we can buy.

Humidity varies but external humidity is a ZERO issue inside a fuel tank. There isn't enough volume even with an empty tank and 100% humidity to create enough condensation to be a problem. Humidity is a myth in regards to E10 fuel.

I've cleaned stuff out of small engine carbs using E10 fuel that suggests that it is pulling in moisture through the carb vent, I never had this problem with the Quadrajet in the boat, but in small engine carbs with a float bowl, unless they are drained, it happens. So all my small engines that have carbs with float bowls get drained, I added shut off valves to the ones that didn't have one and I recently switched to using E0 fuel and they definitely run better, no surging with the choke off like I got with E10. There is only one station local to me that sells E0 fuel, it's expensive but I don't use that much for the landscaping tools, maybe 5 gallons a year...

 

[Jeff J]

Don't airplane motors still need 2 ignition systems?

Yes but a second ignition module and coil would take care of that. Very few places where coil over spark plugs systems would fit. The thing about the magnetos is they are a self contained electrical system. If the aircraft electrical system or one magneto fails it’s no big deal. The electronic magneto I have has its own generator but the downside is it must have at least 9v to start and can quit firing if idle gets too slow.

Amateur (home) built aircraft are called “experimental” for a reason. Pretty much anything goes if you can convince the feds it is plausible to safely fly it. The builder of mine had a V6 Ford in it at one time. He had installed an aircraft engine in it by the time I came along.

Redundancy is nice in an airplane. I once flew 14 miles to the nearest runway on a sick magneto when the other one failed completely. Unfortunately, redundancy also increases weight.

 

[Jeff J]

As G Dad always said , first lair doesn't stand a chance

True gas is gas, but the higher octane the higher the temps can become before per-ignition

I think I said that. Pre-ignition = detonation.
My point is 86 octane produces the same BTUs as 100 octane. Gasoline mixed with alcohol does produce less energy.

 

[jlh3rd]

pre-ignition is the fuel mixture beginning to ignite before the plug fires. Usually caused by residual particles still ignited in the cylinder.
Detonation is a too rapidly expanding flame front after the plug fires due to octane rating not meeting the requirements of the compression in the cylinder from the ratio itself and/or turbo/supercharging. You either dial back the timing (knock sensors) , reduce the compression, reduce throttle, or use the correct octane fuel.

detonation can cause pre-ignition.

the definitions do get flipped/mixed, understandable.

 

[Jeff J]

pre-ignition is the fuel mixture beginning to ignite before the plug fires. Usually caused by residual particles still ignited in the cylinder.
Detonation is a too rapidly expanding flame front after the plug fires due to octane rating not meeting the requirements of the compression in the cylinder from the ratio itself and/or turbo/supercharging. You either dial back the timing (knock sensors) , reduce the compression, or use the correct octane fuel.

detonation can cause pre-ignition.

the definitions do get flipped/mixed, understandable.

I stand corrected on my use of the terms.