1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

[eavega]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Hang in there. Its all part and parcel of owning a 'vintage' motor. One broke thing leads to another, but eventually it all gets fixed. Then of course, there are things that break after everything is fixed. Eventually you do get to the point that you know what the 'risky' components are and how to properly troubleshoot them.

As to the Tach. I can't help you. I would suggest that you get yourself a more modern tach that has the power/ground/signal connection. Easier than trying to guess what wires where.

-E

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Regulator/rectifier came in today. Installed it and still no spark. My service manual still hasn't come in. I read through the cdi troubleshooting guide, but I don't have a DVA meter. It's getting to that point where I'm thinking I'm going to have to fork over the $$ and just take it to a marine shop. I really can't afford that. Grrr.

 

[eavega]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Regulator/rectifier came in today. Installed it and still no spark. My service manual still hasn't come in. I read through the cdi troubleshooting guide, but I don't have a DVA meter. It's getting to that point where I'm thinking I'm going to have to fork over the $$ and just take it to a marine shop. I really can't afford that. Grrr.

Hrm. DVA Adapter for multimeter, $26 plus shipping (Hunt around the forums, there is a link to where you can purchase one online, or even how to build yourself one)

Mechanic $70 an hour, if he'll even look at your motor.

Unfortunately ignition is really where you can't just throw parts at it until you fix it. Ignition components can be pricey (Stator, Timer base, Power Pack), and its best to know where its failing.

Rgds

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

I guess I can at least say that I haven't been throwing money away on unneeded parts. Coils were both cracked open, Stator was burned out, regulator/rectifier had frayed wires. PO had already bought a new power pack for it. I pulled the flywheel off and looked at the timing plate. The sensor had been riding against the flywheel and was chewed up. So... another part ordered.

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Service manual came in and I've been reading through it. Going to test what I can with my multimeter... power pack, safety switch, etc. Talked to a friend of mine who is an auto tech and he has a DVA meter he said I can use. So things are looking up.

 

[eavega]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

For the ignition, refer to the CDI testing specs. IIRC the manual will want you to use special OMC testers like the "neon tester" and such. The CDI troubleshooting guide has the peak voltage and resistance measurements you will need to be looking for.

Good luck.

Rgds

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Already printed off the CDI pages.

After doing some testing with my multimeter, everything checks out good except the power pack... I went through steps of the bench test for the power pack and made it all the way to the very last step.

Per the manual:
Step 6
Set ohmmeter to high ohms scale. Touch leads to terminals #6 and #7. Note reading and reverse leads, note reading again.
A. Both meter readings must be the same and read between 300 and 10,000 ohms.
1. If they are, pack is good.
2. If they are not, pack is faulty.

So, I set the meter to high ohms scale (x1000) and it read to zero with leads in both positions. I switched to the low ohms setting and it read 180 ohms in both positions.

I also had the old power pack (the PO replaced it trying to fix the spark problem). I tested it and the result was the same. All circuits were good except step 6. On the low ohm setting, it read 110 ohms.

So, are both power packs bad? How is a brand new power pack bad?
Terminals 6 and 7 connect to the timing plate wires.

I also checked the grounds to the coils, power pack, and regulator/recitifier. All showed zero resistance.

All I can figure out is that maybe the bad rectifier/regulator killed the old and new power packs, so it isn't processing the signal from the timing plate. And of course, the power pack is one of the most expensive parts, and the only ignition part I haven't replaced.

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Timing plate sensor came in yesterday. I decided to go ahead and install it and give everything a try even though I thought my power pack was bad since it wasn't reading to spec. As soon as the starter bendix hit the flywheel it fired right up. Running like a champ. All I have to do now is get the fuel mix and idle set right. Forward and reverse is working also, so it seems that the lower unit is good. Putting it in the water today after I get off work. Can't wait!

 

[eavega]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

So, how did it go? Water test successful?

-

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Sorry, I've been sick all week. Thought I had the mix set right, but when I put the intake manifold and the cover back on, it wouldn't start. Too rich. After some tinkering while I was on the lake, I got it running great. Got several compliments at the dock too. People asking how old it was and saying that it sounded great for an engine that old. It really moves that heavy 16ft boat. I don't have a gps, so don't know how fast, but after it gets on plane... wow. Seems like the 15p prop is about right. Wish I had a tach to know for sure though. Think I may repaint it so it looks as good as it runs now.

So now it's on to the next project. Need to replace the transom wood. Not looking forward to that b/c I'll have to cut the welds on the top cap and drill a bunch of rivets to get it out/in. Guess that's better than having the motor fall off in the lake though. While I'm in there, I'm going to replace the foam in the flotation pods under each side of the deck. I'm sure that it's water logged. This thing sits really low in the water. I'm sure it's holding a couple hundred extra lbs of water in there.

 

[eavega]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Another route would be to hunt around until you find a good boat with no motor. Happens a lot that someone blows their motor and decides its a great excuse to upgrade. You can pick up the motor-less hull for cheap. I did this with my current rig. I had a tri-hull Chapparal that I purchased for about $400 which needed the standard deck-stringers-transom redone. I added up all the costs of materials to redo (cloth, resin, wood, brushes, rollers etc), and came up with a budget of $1000 all told. I found a like-vintage tri-hull with no motor and no trailer for $250, and put another $200 in newer seats, paint, and gelcoat. She was ready for water within the month, and I saved myself over $500.
I'm just saying that unless you really have a desire to gut and rebuild an old bass boat, there are easier ways to get on the water. You have a good motor, and I assume the steering system works. You can scavenge what you can from your current boat.
Also, I would make sure you put a tach on that motor before getting out on the water. The tach is the one instrument that will truly tell you if the motor is running well or not. A lot of motor problems can be quickly identified just by referring to the tach.

Good luck.

Rgds

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Decided to spend a little time on the motor yesterday. Thought about taking it to the lake, but since I've been sick, decided I didn't feel like it. Glad I made that choice. It would have been a long trip back to the ramp with just the trolling motor. Hooked the water muffs up and ran it for about 10 mins. Adjusted the mixture and idle till it was running really well. Then started the decarb process. Ran it for about 10 mins then shut it off. Let it sit till the thermostat closed and water quit coming out. Cranked it back up, smoked like crazy for about 20 seconds. Ran it for about 10 more minutes again. Shut it off till it cooled. Cranked it again, same result, smoked for about 20 seconds. Here's where it gets funny. It never went into neutral. Tried working the remote back and forth with no result. Wouldn't even shift into reverse. finally it died pretty hard. Tried to start it again and the flywheel just spun around. Flywheel key had sheared off.

So, now I'm waiting on a new flywheel key to come in, then I get to try and figure out what the deal is with the lower unit. I'm already hating this hydroelectric drive. I'm afraid that it's going to be something major, like the solenoids or oil pump. Really not looking forward to this. I refuse to put another $300 into this old motor. Guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope for the best. I'm going to get my battery tested to make sure that's not the cause. Also have to figure out what the deal is with the water outlet. Most of the warm water is coming out from around the pivot area in the mid section. Some is coming out from the prop exhaust, and some from the water outlet, but again, most of it is coming out of the midsection housing. After I get my key in and get it running again, I'll post pics or maybe a vid of what it's doing.

 

[papasage]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

be sure to torque the flywheel nut to spec. that is probabley why it sheered . the fly wheel has to spin to put power to the foot cylinoids .all the battery does is turn the starter .
my first motor was one of those and i found a manual shift foot 1974 and changed it over . to do this you have to change the carb plate to acomidate the extry shift cable . also remove shift diode .also use a ed additive in the fues .those pistons could deterioate from no led gass and they don`t make them anymore . the newer piston will work with a wrist pin kit . thw block is the same in the newer 1974.

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Yeah, I noticed when looking through the parts diagrams that the pistons are no longer available. Really didn't like that.

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

I have seriously just about had it with this piece of crap.

Managed to find a woodruff key locally today. Put it all back together. Cranked right up and ran fine at idle. When I put it in forward and increased to about 3/4 throttle, it started cutting out. Brought it back down to idle and it ran fine. Increased throttle again and it quit. Now it won't start and I have no spark again. Back to square one. I don't have a clue where to go from here other than taking it to a marine shop... and I don't have that kind of money. Already spent more on this thing than I really wanted to.

Also found out while it was running that it's not charging the battery. Tested the leads and it reads right at 13v whether the motor is running or not. Guess that's why it wouldn't go into neutral yesterday. Not enough juice after the battery ran down.

Here's the pics of the water coming out of the motor. First pic is with just the muffs on before I started it. The next two are after it had warmed up and the thermostat had opened. Most of the warm water is coming out of points A and B, some is coming from the water outlet C, and some out of the prop. The powerhead warms up, but not too hot. I can hold my hand on it as long as I want. So I know it's cooling. Just don't know if I need to worry about where the water is coming out.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Water runs out of mine in all those spots.

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Got it fixed on Monday. Pulled the flywheel again to start checking components, and sure enough, the flywheel key had sheared again. Talked to a local marine mechanic and he said the reason it was shearing was b/c the tapers on the crankshaft/flywheel weren't perfectly clean and the flywheel wasn't seating tightly. Spent a couple of hours with some emery cloth cleaning both of them up. Put it all back together and it cranked right up. I've had it to the lake a couple of times this week. Only issues I have now is that it still stays in forward every once in a while. If I use the start lever to increase the rpms, it will usually kick into neutral. Also, reverse doesn't seem to be fully engaging at times. It works, but sometimes it doesn't work that well. I was worried that I might have problems with the lower unit. Of course, as my luck goes, I do, and it's one of the most expensive things to fix. I'm guessing that the reverse issue is either the reverse solenoid, the oil pump, or the gear. In any case, it's going to be really expensive to fix.

I've just about decided that since I've got it running, I'll probably either sell it and look for a new motor, or just sell the whole boat and look for another one. Frustrating... I just want to fish.

 

[ko4nrbs]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

How is it going with your motor??

I'm in Claremore, Ok. and have that same motor. I just got it a couple of weeks ago and only had it out on the lake once. Mine runs and shifts very well. If you haven't done it yet replace the lower unit oil with the OMC Type C (Premium) oil. It could be your problem with shifting or maybe not.

My email is ko4nrbs@yahoo.com
Bill

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

I did replace the LU oil with the Citgo type C, but after reading through some threads here, it seems that others have had shifting problems when using that oil. Going to try and see if I can find some OMC type C today and change it out. Hopefully that is all it needs to fix the reverse issue. I think the issue with forward just has to do with RPMs, either in the oil pump, or voltage to the solenoids. Like I stated earlier, if I increase the rpms a little, it will kick into neutral.

 

[FISTer]

Re: 1971 Johnson 50ESL71S What do I do?

Found some OMC type C and changed it out. I'll find out tonight if it fixed my shifting issue. I sure hope so. That citgo stuff was a LOT thicker than the omc oil. And I think the PO had regular gear lube in. When I changed it the first time, the stuff that came out was thicker than the citgo lube.