1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

[J08248]

Hello, I am having some weird problems with the carbs on my force 125. When fuel is pumped into the carbs via primer it does not fill the carb bowls but rather runs out the mouth of the carb. I took the bowl off and made sure the needle was open and not stuck. I know the fuel should be coming out from where the needle is but there is not a drop; just pouring out the mouth from where the thin brass rod goes through the carb vertically. This is just the bottom carb. The top is not getting fuel at all and I assume it is because the bottom carb is just dumping it all before it can go any higher in the system. What is the deal?

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Sounds like you need to adjust your float on that carb. I would do the same on the other.
Sometimes they can get stuck open or if it floats up in the housing to high and bottoms out
on the inside upper housing thus preventing the valve from closing. One other little detail
Though is if you can take the float out and give it a shake just to make sure it isn't full of fuel, if so then there os no proper floating of the float. Pull the little valve pin out and make sure it is clean and seating properly. Also did you inspect fuel lines for loose cracked or broken lines?

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Well I'm an idiot. I added a low pressure(2.5-3.5 psi) electric fuel pump to get by until the new diaphragm gets in(it had torn). I left the fuel hose on the fuel pump housing instead of hooking it directly to the carbs and it was dumping fuel directly into the intake(since there was no longer a diaphragm inside) and running out the bottom carb. All is taken care of now and I will be testing it out tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

If your going to use an electric fuel pump then it might not be a bad idea to throw on a fuel
pressure regulator with it. It will help to keep from over pumping the carbs and leaving ya
stranded on the lake somewhere. You prob. have already done this but just in case, you should
Make sure that when you turn the key off the pump shuts down as well, or maybe a temp. switch
of some sort to shut it off manually. Glad to help and good luck.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

ANY electrical fuel pumps on an older outboard is like adding a bomb to your fishing supplies.
Not a good idea.The boat isin't set up for a pump in the bildge!!!Especially one that can throw sparks!!!
Maybe we'll read about you in the papers or the net!!! BOOM!!!

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

I dont really see how having a pump in the bilge would be a big deal. The fuel system is completely enclosed except for the vent that is out side the boat. There should be no fumes in the bilge; hence the reason there is no bilge fume blower. Would it not be the same thing as having a bilge pump for water that gathers in the boat? Both electric pumps. Now if you mean it will hurt the carbs; that I cannot be 100% on. It is only 2.5-3.5 psi and only running when the motor is and can also be turned off manually w/ a switch I put in the dash. I don't think it should be a problem as that is the psi required for pretty much anything carb. I also took off the bowls to make sure the pressure would not overcome the needle and flood the carb. Another uncertainty of mine is the effect of bypassing the original fuel pump. I'm not sure if it has some purpose for vacuum or so. BUT, all seems well for now. I will let everyone know how it goes today on the water. We will be leaving here in an hour or so. Thanks for all the input. It is indeed invaluable.

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

If any gas fumes were to get trapped under there then this could create an explosion because in the bilge area there really is no place for the gases to escape. Newer boats have a little fan that sucks the fumes out before starting. If you notice gas fumes under there at all then I would put
that electric pump outside somewhere if you can. As far as the manual pump just leave it on the motor with only the fuel lines disconnected. Have to remember that a bilge pump was made to
Be in the bilge area. Your boat wasn't manufactured for an electric pump in the bilge area. Your call though. Good luck.

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Ok..... well were on the water right now. Runs well but still not where it should be. Has like a hesitation or stutter when WOT. When I pump the bulb it picks up and smooths out. But as soon as I let go it stumbles again. Seems like its not getting enough fuel. The pump is rated for up yo 6 cylinder. Played with the mixture screws with no change. Removed the bulb and no change. From what I've read from other posters with the exact boat they are getting in the low 40's where I'm at 26mph by gps. Somethings not right for sure and there is no tach either. Trying to use my multimeter with hz reading to get a number. Let me know if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks again guys.

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Ok. Either you are getting air in the fuel lines or the electronic fuel pump is unable to keep fuel
pressure up at wot. Has nothing to do with electrical if you are getting back up after pumping the primer.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

You done a compression/spark test?
The safe place to put an electric pump is under the cowl.You ever tilt the motor forward and have gas leak from the carbs.It can feed down to the bildge.
My gas tank on my boat sprung a leak and 20 gal of gas/oil ended up in the bildge.Luck it only had 20 gal.It's a 100 gal tank.Had to replace tank.The ethanol we use is bad on hoses.It ate the hose I had ran to an auxillary tank and started leaking in the bildge.It siphoned 16 gal into the bildge.That's why it's not a good idea.You NEVER know when gas might get into the bildge.
Bildge pumps are air tight and no sparks gome from them unless you leave it on and it melts and burns up.
Friend lost a 48ft because he left the pump on.
Any inline connectors? Sometimes they leak and suck air.Remove and don't replace.

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

You don't need a primer bulb on that anyways. The electronic fuel pump should be able to deliver plenty of fuel to carbs without the need to prime up fuel system. Try it without the primer bulb and see what you get.

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Ok thanks for all the replies. It seems that the motor picked up and smoothed out when I closed the choke a slight amount which tells me it is not getting enough fuel. I will take off the in line connector tomorrow and see if it makes any difference. I have checked compression at 120 accross the board and spark is good on all cylinders. Though spark could be weak but I feel that is unlikely on all cylinders. What octane gas do you guys use? I noticed on the boat it said to use leaded. ??? To me this definately looks like a fuel problem but I can't see from where. Pump should not be the problem as its rated at 42 gallons per hour. If this thing consumes that much I'm sellin it! : ) as for the placement of the pump; I really appreciate all of the concern. I will be sure to move it to the cowl tomorrow. It was my original intentions but I couldn't really find a place to fit it. I also got my trim motor in today so will be installing it tomorrow as well. That should help out my speed and crappy steering too I imagine. Well until next time....... thanks guys and happy boating. P.s. isll be sure to post a pic of the rig we pulled it with today, my buddies vw jetta with a 4 cyl turbo diesel. Looks kinda funny but does it no problem. Lol got quite a few looks today pulling a boat 4 feet longer than the car.

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

87 octane unleaded 50:1mix. That's what I run in my 89 125force outboard.
I think trying to push fuel through the primer bulb may be your trouble with the electric fuel
Pump. Closing the check valve in the primer bulb. Pulling the fuel through is how your manual
pump operates so let us know how she turns out after the mounting in the cowl. Excited to see
the pix.

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Hers the pic at the ramp in the water. lol doesn't look to bad from this angle cause the boat is in the distance. The primer bulb is not the problem as I removed it while on the water and no difference. Gonna mess with with some stuff today and see how it goes. Hope my trim motor works good too.View attachment 107424

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Well, here we go....... Took her out today, the first few minutes it ran amazing. It came out of the hole like a raped aped and was on plane immediatley. BUT, it still only had a top speed of about 28-29mph. I finally got an rpm reading with a reflective digital tach for the first time. At WOT it was only at 3600rpm. So... we messed with the adjustments some and made it worse so we put it back to the way it was to begin with. Ran good again but then suddenly, as soon as the boat was up to top speed, it started to cut out like a fuel starvation. So the next time it did it I cut off the motor at that rpm and yanked the bowls to see if they were dry of gas. Turns out they were full so I don't see how it can be a fuel starvation problem. Checked timing again and it's dead on. Still spark on all cylinders. I removed the inline connections and the primer bulb again. I'm not sure where to go with this thing now. I don't think it is waterlogged foam weighing it down because the previous owner replaced the floor(I would assume if they noticed wet foam it would be tore out). The prop is brand new but I'm not sure the specs on it. It's aluminum. Will the incorrect prop make this big of a difference in top speed? (obviously there are still engine problems but when it was running good and strong the rpms were way low). Oh and still have choke closed about 20% to make it run the best. Take it off and speed drops about 3 mph and motor gets slightly rough. WHAT THE HECK IS THE DEAL!!! I just wanna have fun!!!!!!!!

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Sorry to hear your still having prob. I'm thinking that fuel pump may not be able to
deliver enough fuel to the carbs at wot. If your able to choke thoughs carbs and gain
rpms then I would try a pump that can deliver more pressure at wot. Have you checked
the timing. I know on my 125 force outboard it is set at 28 btdc static. When I am on the lake it is
30 btdc at wot. May not hurt to at least see where it is and rule that one out.

 

[mikes 86]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

im having exact same problem with my 86/124, i cleaned carbs put new gaskets checked floats,just basic clean job, ran fine before carb clean job, now stumbles at wot, back off a little runs fine, also hard to start after sitting on water timing at 28 static, FRUSTRATED with this motor.

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

Well I'm about to sell this boat because of the lousy motor. Never been a big fan of Chrysler and this is only making it worse. Once again replaced the fuel pump diaphragm. Ran great for the first half hour then did the exact same thing again, fell on it's face and stumbled. Look at the diaphragm and it was once again torn. I know it was not in backwards cause I looked at the diagram before replacing. Switched back to the electric and the same thing still. About had it with this thing. I was told not to buy the boat because apparently this motor has a bad rap. Should have listened.......

 

[bentle]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

I agree with ya on the bad rap on the motor. I'm at lake powell right know with a motor not
running right. After digging around awhile today on my 125force I discovered that #2the is way
low on comp. checking with my finger anyways. The other three felt just fine so I guess it's time
for a hone and ring on that cylinder. I hope I can get by with just that. Guess ill find out when I
get her home. I was wondering though if you could be having the same prob. with yours.

 

[J08248]

Re: 1986 Force 125 Carb Issue HELP!!!

compression is not the problem. It is 120 across the board. lPus it runs great for about half an hour then dies. Thinking about replacing the entire ignition system just for peace of mind if I can find it cheap. Still not sure why the diaphrams are ripping. Cheap I guess.