'65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

[mydejavooo]

Ok, I am needing some help and some support. I juuuuuust bought a 65 MirroCraft with a 65 18hp Evinrude...and I have taken it out a total of 3 times. The first time was great; no problems. Second time I took out the boat alone after having installed a hydrofoil, and it was even better!! Today I took it out with my 10yr old son and 9 yr old daughter...and I started having some issues.

First, I noticed that when it would get revved up to it's highest rpms, it would suddenly slip like you threw it into neutral. I would back off the throttle, and it would "re-engage". But this issue continued for a while, and I couldn't get it up to full speed as a result.

Then, I was trolling around fishing with the kids, and then accelerated from a slow troll. The engine sputtered a little and died. I immediately tried to start it (manual starting only) and it felt like the engine was stuck! The flywheel would not move at ALL. I removed the cover, noted NOTHING, and then tried again. I was able to pull it maybe 3 more times, and not it's STUCK again. $#$%@#$!!!

So my questions is this....what is going on here?? I had to paddle about 3/4 of a mile with the assistance of my son, and the poor guy was tuckered out!! I got home, threw the boat in the driveway and called it a night. :facepalm:

Is my engine fried?? Did it overheat and melt the pistons? Did the fuel pump go out?? I have NO idea what to do, and this is the first outboard engine that I have ever owned...and it's like the curse of the boats has continued once more. I had a Glastron 2 years ago, and I had nothing but problems with it. I just PRAY that someone can offer some advice on what to do, what to look for, and ANY support!! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!! The engine gave no indication that there was anything wrong with it, right up to the point that it died and is now frozen. No billowing smoke or noise.

DeJa

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Was the gas mixed with 2 cycle oil?
Was there water pumping from the exhaust relief port?

 

[Matt Braley]

Re: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

I have had these burn up and act like this. What oil where you mixing and at what ratio? Did you see if it was pumping water? Lack of coolant or lubricant or both

 

[mydejavooo]

Re: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Water was pumping, and it was working fine. Mixing ratio with the GOOD synthetic oil at a little under 100:1. I used a mixing bottle, to ensure that I was putting in the proper amount of oil too. The local boat shop advised me to run that, and I've run it for litterally 6 hours with that mixture, and it ran like a dream! It is Amsoil Sabre Outboard oil. The guy at the shop said that he runs that in ALL of the older boats, because it smokes less, loads up less, and will extend the life of the motor. Up to the point where it stopped running, I was in love with the stuff!!

DeJa

 

[mark in new jersey]

Re: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

100:1?

Ought to be more like 24:1. Some even think on older motors you ought to go 16:1

 

[BonairII]

Re: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

100:1 ?? Shame on the dealer for recommending it! That's crazy for a '65. Of course, it'll smoke less...there's barely any oil in the gas.

 

[mydejavooo]

Re: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

He told me that he ALWAYS runs this in his older engines, even the mid-60's Evinrudes. Here is the link, and even Amsoils states that it is to be used as a 50:1 replacement, as it is a full synthetic oil. But....NOW what do I do?? The way way it felt like it was "kicking into neautral" seems unrelated, yet NOT. And again, it gave no hint...not even SOUND wise that it was going to have an issue. Assuming that it was not the oil, is there something else I can look at? What can I check to see if it is truly siezed?

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/ato.aspx

DeJa

 

[mydejavooo]

UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

UPDATE: So I got bored...went out to the boat and messed around a bit with the engine. I pulled the plugs and then used a pry-bar wedged between the flywheel teeth and the coil rope "cage" (??) and after about 2 minutes of VERY careful prying (so as to NOT damage the cage), I was able to get the flywheel to rotate freely by hand! I can now pull on the rope and it pulls just fine. I used a little penetrating oil sprayed in the spark plug holes, but I doubt that it had anything to do with the fact that I was able to free whatever was stuck. So now the motor is "free", but my mind still wonders what on earth caused this situation? Too little oil in the fuel? The spark plugs look normal, not black and oily, and look like how a car engine's spark plug looks when it is running right. Should they look different?

So my question is this: Should I UP the amount of oil in the fuel and attempt to start it in a barrel of water? Could I possibly have lucked out? When looking at the top of the pistons, they looked fine, but I suppose I should still have concern for the crank and bearings. Perhaps it's some other issue altogether? When the engine died, it acted like it was running out of fuel...just sort of sputtered and died. It did NOT go "THUNK" and stop abruptly...and again....NO noise to suggest that there were any mechanical issues. I had it out on the water 2 days before that, and ran it for literally 4 hours non-stop with no issues at all. You would think that if there was an extreme lack of oil in the mix, that it would have reared it's ugly head then.

Suggestions from here?

DeJa

 

[kodibass]

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Not trying to insult anyone, but was your engine in gear when it died? & did you take it out of gear when you tried to restart it? There is a shift flywheel stop to prevent in gear starting (I think ) even on some earlier models? your slipping in and out of gear is likely clutch dog lugs are worn. Once you put the kids (additional weight) the load was enough to cause the slippage. Now that you have the engine turning over do a compression check, this will give you a great deal of information on the condition of your cylinders. from there you will be able to determine what the next step should be.
kb

 

[mydejavooo]

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Not trying to insult anyone, but was your engine in gear when it died? & did you take it out of gear when you tried to restart it? There is a shift flywheel stop to prevent in gear starting (I think ) even on some earlier models? your slipping in and out of gear is likely clutch dog lugs are worn. Once you put the kids (additional weight) the load was enough to cause the slippage. Now that you have the engine turning over do a compression check, this will give you a great deal of information on the condition of your cylinders. from there you will be able to determine what the next step should be.
kb

Certainly no offense taken in the least. Yes, it was in gear when it died, as I was going maybe 7mph when it sputtered and stopped. I do believe I put it in neutral upon attempting to restart it. My first thought was "no fuel", and that perhaps it had lost it's prime, but that doesn't appear to be the case unless the fuel pump died. Also, I have been looking at the engine diagrams, and was wondering about the lower gear assembly as well (the clutch dog), and wondered if something was maybe bound up down there, causing the appearance of the engine being "locked up". Maybe even the impeller unit has issues? I dunno. Are the clutch dogs easy to replace? Maybe this is best left to a boat doctor, but I feel confident enough with my own mechanical abilities, that if I WERE able to locate the culprit, I think I could replace the item. Here's the schematics that I have been looking at as well.

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/vintage-evinrude-johnson/278647/catalog.html?http://www.marineengine.com/parts/vintage-evinrude-johnson/278647/27864700001.htm

DeJa

PS............can the skeg simply be unbolted and lowered in order to assess any issues with the gear assembly...or will things start falling out when you do that?

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Well, I have a 1967 version of that motor (darn near an exact twin to yours) that runs like a champ. Who ever sold you the line of goods about that oil ratio hould be considered an enemy and stupid.

Sounds as if you overheated the poor thing. You will need a head gasket, a new impellar (Just for good measure) and need to access the exhaust ports to see if any of the rings are seized. When you do the head gasket it will allow you to inspect the cylinder walls.

I would do a compression test and let some sea foam soak in the cylinders.

Those motors are fairly bullet proof and this one may be able to be rescued. Once you do get it running properly I would run EXTRA oil just to be safe. (Those motors will run at double oil). 50:1 is your base line however do not be afraid to add an extra ounce or two. 1 pint to 6 gallons is 50:1 but in your case I would either add more oil or just put 5 gallons of gas in with 16 ounces of oil.

Before you remove any clutch dog or internals I would work my way from the top down.

 

[lindy46]

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Don't EVER run that motor at 100:1. I probably wouldn't even run it 50:1 as it is a 40+ year old motor. Try 24:1 or 32:1. Yes, first check compression before pulling the head. If you have decent compression, install a new impeller and try running it in a tank at the richer oil:fuel mixture. If you can get it to run decent in the tank, then you can move on to the other issues. Slippage may be as simple as a spun prop hub, or you may have a worn clutch dog/forward gear. A spun hub usually causes the motor to rev up and not go anywhere. Sometimes it will troll ok, but just rev up when you accelerate. A worn clutch dog usually acts more like a clunk or thump - like you hit a log in the water.

 

[mydejavooo]

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Re: UPDATE!!: '65 Evinrude 18hp Fastwin WOES!! Help, please???

Don't EVER run that motor at 100:1. I probably wouldn't even run it 50:1 as it is a 40+ year old motor. Try 24:1 or 32:1. Yes, first check compression before pulling the head. If you have decent compression, install a new impeller and try running it in a tank at the richer oil:fuel mixture. If you can get it to run decent in the tank, then you can move on to the other issues. Slippage may be as simple as a spun prop hub, or you may have a worn clutch dog/forward gear. A spun hub usually causes the motor to rev up and not go anywhere. Sometimes it will troll ok, but just rev up when you accelerate. A worn clutch dog usually acts more like a clunk or thump - like you hit a log in the water.

Is it imperative to pull the head if it rotates freely? Rest assured I will be running it with a LOT more oil in it....AND stopping by to give that boat guy a piece of my mind. Seems like there would or at least COULD be some liability there if he is recommending that I run that motor with THAT mixture...but maybe not.

And the way you describe the motor revving up and not going anywhere, is EXACTLY what mine was doing. No clunks, just building revs and then "letting go" and the revs go up a lot like I kicked it into neutral!. Puttering around slowly was fine, just not the higher speeds. So which part is the hub?? Can you please look at the diagram on the link in the post above, and let me know which one it is? Also, is it easy to replace? Sorry for the ignorant questions here....just learning as I go.

DeJa

 

[mydejavooo]

Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Maybe it's the stubbornness in me...but I don't leave things alone OR go down without a fight. So.....I put the motor in a trashcan...filled it with water...mixed in a LOT more oil in the fuel...drained the old fuel from the fuel lines...sprayed a lot of carb cleaner and cleaned up the carb...reinstalled the plugs and PRAYED!!! After 3 pulls, she was idling and purring like a kitten!!!! OMG! It was running perfectly! Granted, there was a little more oil smokeage due to the increased 2-cycle oil...but I was expecting and hoping for that. I ran it in neutral for a while, then through the forward and reverse...without any issues. Turne it off; restarted it; and it ran the same. Did I dodge a bullet here??

There was water coming out of the exhaust port hole, suggesting that the water pump is working the way it should. There was nothing to suggest that there were any issues at all...so I'm left wondering if something could have been sucked into the intake and maybe caught inside the impeller or something...maybe some trash? I dunno. But the ouboard gods have smiled down upon me today.

BUT...the slippage in gear makes me wonder if there is a seperate problem like hub wear. Can someone give me a part number or tell me what I need to do to investigate that little demon? Sounds like that issue is in the lower unit gear assembly. Obviously I want to take the boat out again, but not until I can get a handle on what is going on here.

And THANK YOU, guys, for all of the help that you are providing. Greatly appreciated!!

DeJa

 

[lindy46]

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Glad she's running. I would still change the impeller if you don't know the history of the motor. You can check for a spun hub by removing the prop and scribing a line across the back of the prop and hub. Put the prop back on and run the motor to duplicate the problem. Then remove the prop and see if the line has moved. If it has - spun hub. A prop shop or Johnnyrude dealer can re-hub the prop for $40-50 and she'll be as good as new.

 

[mydejavooo]

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Glad she's running. I would still change the impeller if you don't know the history of the motor. You can check for a spun hub by removing the prop and scribing a line across the back of the prop and hub. Put the prop back on and run the motor to duplicate the problem. Then remove the prop and see if the line has moved. If it has - spun hub. A prop shop or Johnnyrude dealer can re-hub the prop for $40-50 and she'll be as good as new.

How hard is it to swap out the impeller?

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

It's not hard. 5 bolts on the lower unit, and remove the 2 screws on the oval cover in the midsection to access the shift shaft connector. unscrew the lower connector bolt all the way, making note of the groove in the shift shaft. The bolt must pass through this groove upon reinstallation. Use the proper screwdriver, remove the top of the water pump housing and make sure when you take the impeller off, you don't lose the drive shaft key that turns the impeller. There should be a rubber o-ring on the top of the driveshaft below the splines. If not there, replace it with a new one.
I also agree that 100:1 is NOT the correct mixture. Good advice on the prop hub. If the blades are bent on the prop, I'd probably just buy a new prop for about 80 bucks through Michigan Wheel. 50:1 is the correct mix. I doubt it was the low oil ratio that made it seize. I'd replace the thermostat and impeller if it was me. If it idles good, I might ignore replacing the head gasket. Up to you. You should be able to keep your hand on the cylinder head for about 3 seconds before it hurts if the motor is running cool enough. You should use an infrared thermometer or the hand test after a short run to get a better idea of how cool it's staying, even if it's spitting lots of water out the exhaust relief.
People that collect antique outboards probably wouldn't even consider buying one run on 100:1 oil mix. And they take lots of them apart!
JMO,
JBJ

 

[mydejavooo]

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

The prop appears to be almost new, and the blades are not bent in any way. Perhaps the "scribing" test would be a good way to determine if it's toast or not. If it IS bad, then I suppose I will have it re-hubbed. And I also need to break down and get a service manual, since I have absolutely no clue where the thermostat is! Not sure how the hub could have been damaged, but I suppose anything's possible.

DeJa

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Even though it doesn't look like it, there is a lot of rubber inside the prop. It gets old and dry rotted over time just like rubber in other places and can sometimes turn loose for no apparent reason. Usually it's from striking an underwater object, running in thick weeds, or putting a lot of weight in the boat and lugging the motor which puts a lot of strain on the rubber hub.
The thermostat is under a little cover right behind the flywheel/ top of the cylinder head. I believe there are 3 or 4 screws holding the cover on. You could test it in a pot of water on the stove. I believe it should open and close so that the motor stays about 140 degrees.
Good luck,
JBJ

 

[mydejavooo]

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Re: Update Num-buhhhhh-twoooooooooooooo!!! It's ALIVE!!

Well, I took the prop off of the boat (which I was able to do with only a pair of pliers for the cotter pin) and the prop is definitely spun. I could even turn the prop and the hub would spin inside of it...so I clearly need to have it re-hubbed OR get a new prop. I'm hoping that the local boat shop can re-hub it for $30-50, since the prop is a nice bronze Michigan unit. If I HAVE to get a new prop, would you guys suggest sticking with the factory size, i.e. 9 1/4 x 11? Is there a different size/pitch that can increase the performance? I know this is open to some debate, but I'm hoping someone can offer some advice in that department.

Also, if I have to re-hub the prop myself, can someone suggest a source for the parts? I see a lot of kits on eBay, but they all look like they are for newer engines with splined shafts. It really looks like it would be a simple process with the proper parts to install.

DeJa