'98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

the only nuts/bolts that you should remove without risking that your engine falls off is <br /><br />1) the tie rod that goes from right end of cable back to motor. you may remove this completely and put the tie rod in a box if you wish.<br /><br />2) the cable nut which attaches to the right end of tube (item #4).<br /><br />no other nuts and bolts should be taken loose. the only item in that picture that does not provide structural integrity to your motor mounting is the tilt lock (#12).<br /><br />do you think the end of cable is mushroomed? if so, I only see four basic strategies. <br />1) drill the right side of cable, tap a hole, and use a gear puller to back it out<br />2) reconnect nut and turn the steering wheel. maybe it is not so badly jammed that cable won't push back out.<br />3) cut cable and try to pound it back out the right side of tube<br />4) cut cable, pull engine off boat, take brackets off motor, and take it inside where you can use stuff like welders and bench vices.<br /><br /><br /> ... or ... would you rather try to

 

[ebsworj]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

lukethorwart - I guess you didn't read my post... but anyway I'm doing the exact same project as you now on a 94 bayliner with the same motor. I'm a little further than you and can save you some time.<br /><br />1. unscrew the large nut on the cable were it meets the motor.<br /><br />2. pull the cable with pliers or pound it through from the other side untill the smaller part of the stainless steel rod is exposed.<br /><br />3. Now cut this with a saws-all. Note: I went through 2 new metal blades and a new hack saw blade and I would have needed 2 more blades except that I had a hammer near by to finish the job. STAINLESS STEEL IS TOUGH!<br /><br />4. Now you will still need to pound the rest of the rod out from inside your tilt tube this is super slow and boring. I'm doing it now.<br /><br />5. Here's the next step I have relized that once the rod is out it is going to hit my splash well before I can pull it out of the tilt tube! ARG!<br />So I'm going to rent an engine hoist to lift the motor a few inches to both get the old steering rod out and allow the new one to slip in from the stock hole in the splashwell.<br /><br />This last part step was unexpected but after reading other posts on this board it is neccisary on some boats. The alternative to lifting the motor would be to take a 1 1/2" hole saw and enlarge the hole thats allready in the splash well to allow the rod to slide out all the way. I don't really want to cut the boat so I'm going to lift it. <br /><br />Hope this helps, I'm by no means an expert but wanted to try to help none the less.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

If this is your transom bracket set-up. 1994 Froce 120, then I think we are different. That's why I'm not in the same "boat" as you. No pun intended. I have a 1998 Force 120, it's a bit different, check it out.<br /><br /> https://www.mercruiserparts.com/Sho...&bnbr=210&bdesc=SWIVEL+BRACKET/STERN+BRACKETS

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

ebsworj,<br /><br />you might be able to loosen the two jam nuts on your steering tube (items #20 and #26 in picture) and gain enough extra room to remove the rest of your rod. as lukethorwart noticed, the 1994 setup is different from 1998. if luke's link is accurate then try loosening the two jam nuts and the grease fitting. Once you do this, the tube should slide freely.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

RRitt,<br /><br />Do you think the steering rod is part of the tilt tube in my setup? In other words, the only way to get it out is to push it back out the right side (standing in the boat looking at it.<br /><br />And this is why when I started trying to pound it out from right to left the tilt tube started to move with it?

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

luke, i'm not sure what you have. Please answer following so that I can understand what you have and where you are at.<br /><br />1) is this the right picture?<br /> https://www.mercruiserparts.com/IMAGES/FORCE/855376.R2/15.png <br /><br />2) is it single or twin engine?<br /><br />3) have you removed the large nut that connects steering cable to the starboard end of steering tube? <br /><br />4) do you think the port end of steering cable is mushroomed?

 

[ebsworj]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

RRitt - thanks, I see what you mean they are different. That site is a great resource! The schematic is drawn a bit off on part # 17. It shows it passing through the bracket not quite right but It does show many other important parts. I think its just the lines that show the parts fitting through other parts that are drawn weird. Almost like a MC Etcher painting. I'll try to grease the fitting #18.<br /><br />My jam nuts #20, #26 are on there solide they didn't move with my largest crescent wrench. Perhaps I'll try some penetrating oil.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

the imprtant thing to note per drawing is that 1994 steering tube is not threaded on right side. with left jam nut and gear fitting removed you can slide it right. then unscrew the other jam nut and the whole thing comes out. since older design had separate pivot bolt (item #7 in drawing) the seering tube has no impact on motor mounting. However ... if you smash things around it might be difficult to line everything back up so that it will can be re-installed. good luck. I think you got it easy compared to luke. the new design is cheaper to make but the old design is easier to fix.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Here's exactly where I am currently.<br /><br />Engine linkage was disconnected from steering rod and it's still connected at engine(but that's no big deal). The engine swivels like a champ.<br /><br />The rack is removed from pinion gear at helm. Steering wheel turns like a champ (boy I wish the wheel would turn that nice when all hooked up).<br /><br />Nut #5 and O-Ring #6 were removed. <br /><br />Nut #8 is off the shoulder where the threads meet the tilt tube but won't back up off the threads. It won't move any further on the threads either way for some reason (just spins in place when torqued).<br /><br />I have the second nut on starboard side which is part of the steering cable backed off the threads, but not off all the way. This is where my question about the cable comes in. Are there threads on the cable itself? This nut is still on some threads but I can't tell if the threads are part of the tilt tube or the steering cable. I have a feeling that these threads probably belong to the tilt tube. <br /><br />Also, there is a 3" or so long metallic sleeve that is covering the steering cable with a lip that is keeping the steering cable nut from backing entirely off the threads that it is on. You can see what that looks like on any old picture of a Teleflex steering cable. The nut is backed up to and butted up against this lip.<br /><br />Now for the hammering description:<br /><br />The telescoping part of the cable was fully retracted and I have hammered the end of the steering rod from the port side (along with the tilt tube, I realize now) all the way into the hole where the tilt tube tyipcally resides. Unfortunately the tilt tube has also moved with the whole thing it and I would say i can see about 4" of the tilt tube coming out the starboard side. The engine is quite wobbly now because I think I probably have come quite close to pushing the tilt tube past the pivot point where the transom bracket and what the diagram is calling the "swivel bracket" comes together (yes I know, that's bad). Also, I would think that the holes aren't lined up too well anymore. Let's put it this way, the transom bracket/swivel bracket junction moves a little when putting a force on the engine (pushing on it briefly, etc).<br /><br />So thats about where I stand. The steering rod cannot be hammered anymore from the port side and I can see a few inches of it on the starboard side. Both nuts on the starboard side are still on a thread (what the thread belongs to, not 100% sure).<br /><br /><br />Hope thats enough info. I really appreciate your continuted support and help. Hopefully this has a happy ending.<br /><br />Luke

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Nut #8 is going to be a problem. it needs to be strong. you might be able to bail yourself out with a good jam nut (www.boltdepot.com) run in behind it so that the messed up nut ends up being a washer. however - you may then have to locktite the steering cable nut. It needs to be secure.<br /><br />the cable should have a dead stop even when disconnected. Therefore, the nut holding it to the steering tube nust be completely disconnected. It's possible that you have been hammering against the cable stop.<br /><br />okay - here's what you need to do. get some 2x4's and bolt them together at one end so that they form a tripod. poistion this over your engine. If you have a come-along then use it. If not rig up pulleys with anchor rope. the engine weighs 150-200lbs. pull up engine enough so that there is no force on stern brackets. try to fix the damage to motor mounting before going back at cable.<br /><br />on cable. I really think problem is that the nut connecting tube to cable end might have still been attached. when you hammer the cable you are going against cable stop and the cable nut is pulling out your tube. but you need to make sure that your engine doesn't fall off before you even think about pulling out cable. it might be that cable is the only thing holding your engine together.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

oh, sorry. lift the engine using the threads coming out of flywheel. this is center and engine will want to hang straight up and down from it. an el-cheap-o bracket can be fabricated by buying a metal cover for an electrical junction box. match the knockout in middle to bolt on flywheel. get a threaded u-bracket four washers and four nuts. drill a couple holes in the plate and bolt the u-bracket to plate. jam plate between nuts and washers. bolt plate onto flywheel and use it as your puller.<br /><br />you do not need to pull engine or remove stern bolts (yet). all you want to do is take the weight off the tube so that you can fix it.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Thanks for the detailed response. I agree now that I think the steering cable nut is still "attached" to the tilt tube. I still don't know how I'm gonna get that nut entirely off because of that metal sleeve with the lip that it is currently butted up against. Maybe I'll have to file down that lip or something so the bolt backs up over it and off.<br /><br />As far as that engine lift system you described, I'm having trouble picturing it. I can understand all the separate parts but I don't get how the come-along paired with the tripod and bracket mounted on the flywheel all work together. Could you reexplain that one and how you anticipate this to line up the holes in the transom bracket and swivel bracket.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Luke

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

AND, how to I get the tilt tube to move in the opposite direction I had been moving it. I need to go starboard to port now and there really is no where to put a hammer on anything. Everything is still connected.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

first, you need to put the hammer in your garage and leave it there. If you need a hammer, then something is wrong. everything should fit by hand and then be secured in place with nuts and bolts. Once the appropriate nuts and bolts are removed everything should also come apart by hand.<br /><br />you attach the rigged up eye-lift to your flywheel. The tripod is strong enough to support the engine so you run the come-along from bracket to top of tripod. then you gently and slowly lift the engine until the tilt tube no longer carries the weight of the engine. harbor freight sells a come-along for $10. then you lock the come-along at that height and work on fixing the tilt tube. on most inexpensive come-alongs, "locking it in place" is nothing more than using electrical tape to secure the handle.<br /><br />you need to re-examine the cable to tilt tube nut. it should simply unscrew. as you unscrew it, push the cable sheath back into the hull and the cable should come loose from tube.<br /><br />in the end, it may soon be time to seek a mechanic. there's nothing worse than having your outboard fall off the back of your boat when you are 20 miles offshore.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

Ok great thanks.<br /><br />I understand and I think I'll be able to work all this out once I get that tilt tube back in place.<br /><br />I'm still not visualizing what the tripod looks like and how it gets positioned "over" the engine as you had said it a few messages ago. Could you please further explain this tripod.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

I got the tilt tube back in it's original place by an act of some supreme being. Now I'm back to where I started. I'll have to evaluate where to go from here. I would imagine removing the cable stop from the cable will be my first task so that I can disonnect the cable from the tilt tube like I should hav ein the first place. <br /><br />Now, the question is..how do I remove this metal jacket thats acting as a stop.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

you don't remove jacket. the jacket and cable are considered as one. just push the jacket back into bulkhead enough to get nut clear of tube. when you pull out the old cable/jacket tie a string to one end. then when you put in new cable/jacket have one person push the cable through while another pulls on the string. the string will help to guide it.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

OK i got the tilt tube back in place now my engine isn't going to fall off. And I got the nut off. I am trying to pull it out but boy is it cruddy. I can only get about 3 inches of it out before it sticks and won't move.<br /><br />Another point of confusion. Whatever I'm pulling out is quite a bit smaller in diameter than the rod at the port side with the hole in it that connects to the engine link.

 

[RRitt]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

if your cable end started at same diameter as the tilt tube and it's mushroomed then I don't think you'll get the cable out. If it's moving, then push it back out the other end and make sure there is no mushrooming. If there is then file, grind, or cut it down. If you grind, make sure that there is nothing flammable (like fumes in your bilge) anywhere close to the boat.

 

[lukethorwart]

Re: '98 Bayliner 120 Force Teleflex Rack Steering System SEIZED

What an ordeal this has been. And for such a seemingly simple job. Let me redescribe what is happening. I have the nut on the steering cable disconnected from the tilt tube (finally). And I began to pull in hopes of pulling the old rod out. I am pulling something out but it's not the full diameter of the rod that I can see on the port side (the end with the hole in it that connects to the steering linkage). It's actually what I envision to be the telescoping part of the rod (about half the diameter of the rod that I can see on the port side). Plus, it's not moving from the port side. Why would I be pulling this smaller diameter rod out instead of the whole thing including the main steering rod. I thought all of this was connected?