Another case of stalling going into gear

[otgdy]

I believe I read all of the posts about this but still can't troubleshoot this problem to a conclusion. Can you please help ?

I have a Merc 260 (chevy 350) with an Alpha outdrive. The outdrive, shift cable, drive shaft, wiring, trim position + cutout switches are all new. The drive purrs like a kitten. Everything works fine when I run it on the muffs but stalls going into gear (either forward or reverse) when in the water. The only thing I can find is the idle is a little high in idle. (1K rpm) should be 900.Timing, advance are right on. The carb is a receint rebuild no hesitations etc. . No water in the gas.

I have been advised to replace the shift cable. This may actually be the cause, however I am not convinced. For one it is brand new and I do not see any damage to it along its length suggesting it was overheated. AND it works perfectly on the muffs. If it is bad I am looking into some way to verify this.

Can someone tell me step by step how to troubleshoot this stalling issue ? If the cutout switch is adjusted wrong can I jumper it to get it into gear ? Then pull the jumper to get it out of gear ? I have been told that this switch helps going from gear to neutral not the other way around. Wouldn't this suggest the switch adjustments are wrong ? or the cable it trashed ?

I have already read about the theory of what the switches (neutral-safety/cutout) do and how they are built like crap etc etc etc. I really want to get this boat in the water before the snow flies. BTW I already had it to 2 marine mechanics that set it up on muffs and charged me a bunch. Only to find out that the boat has to be in the water in order to get it right. Well this proves it .. Still not going anywhere.



Thank you
OTG

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

The idle rpm should be around 750 in gear which should put the neutral rpm around 800. If you disconnect the forward cable, push the lower cable in fully and make sure it's locked in gear. Measure from the hole to the center of the barrel and be sure it's 6 inches. Then reconnect the forward cable to fit that. You should be able to move the lower cable in and out very easy. If there any stiffness, it will kill the engine.

 

[84EdH]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

otgdy, bummer. Does this happen every time you shift or just sometimes? there is no interrupt switch adjustment, just cable adjustment.

Your right, the interrupt switch is only designed to help get the drive out of gear. However, it is my understanding that if the lower shift cable is old, or sticky, or kinked, it can be activated while going into gear, causing a stall.

You can rule out the interrupt switch as the problem by actually watching (with two people, one watching, the other shifting), to see the Y plate connected to the interrupt switch move while engaging into gear, while in the water . it is easy to see when it kicks in.

if the y plate connected to the interrupt shift does not move while shifting into gear, and the engine stalls, it is not from the interrupt switch. I have done this by leaving the boat on the trailer on the launch ramp and backing up until the drive is deep enough to put down and operate. You can set your idle like this and you can safely shift into and out of forward gear, with the boat pushing against the winch bar on the trailer while at idle.

You may have a new lower shift cable, but it could have been kinked during the install. If you do see the interrupt plate move while shifting into gear, you know the cable is the problem.




.

 

[otgdy]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

otgdy, bummer. Does this happen every time you shift or just sometimes? there is no interrupt switch adjustment, just cable adjustment.

Your right, the interrupt switch is only designed to help get the drive out of gear. However, it is my understanding that if the lower shift cable is old, or sticky, or kinked, it can be activated while going into gear, causing a stall.

You can rule out the interrupt switch as the problem by actually watching (with two people, one watching, the other shifting), to see the Y plate connected to the interrupt switch move while engaging into gear, while in the water . it is easy to see when it kicks in.

if the y plate connected to the interrupt shift does not move while shifting into gear, and the engine stalls, it is not from the interrupt switch. I have done this by leaving the boat on the trailer on the launch ramp and backing up until the drive is deep enough to put down and operate. You can set your idle like this and you can safely shift into and out of forward gear, with the boat pushing against the winch bar on the trailer while at idle.

You may have a new lower shift cable, but it could have been kinked during the install. If you do see the interrupt plate move while shifting into gear, you know the cable is the problem.




.

It happens every time. Thing that bothers me is the shift cable is brand new and it worked fine for a couple of hours.

The cable runs from the engine around the power steering unit .. forward around the exhaust then thru the transom to the outdrive. Checked the cable and didn't find anything that hints of being overheated or damaged . Did find some chafing on the exhaust pipe where the cable wraps around it. The cable appears fine tho. Does this routing sound correct ?

Need to get someone help check it out like you said. Interesting .. do I have this correct ?

I should NOT see the plate move going into gear. If I do the shift cable is binding making it move when it shouldn't and the cable needs to be replaced. If it doesn't move then there is a problem elsewhere. (engine timing ? lack of power in idle = stalling ?)

The plate should move coming out of gear which is normal. This makes sense. That is its function.

So a bad cable can make the cutout activate (plate move) when it shouldn't. Which explains why the cutout switch is discussed when there are problems going into gear. The confusing part is when we discuss this switch and in the same sentence it is said that this switch only "works" coming out of gear not going in.

Did I say this right?

Sorry for being so dense. Eventually it clicks and makes sense.

OTG

 

[84EdH]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

otg, you should post the year of your engine and outdrive and the serial numbers. alpha gen 1 or gen 2 ? carburetor or mpi?


yes, interrupt switch only supposed to activate going out of gear, but if cable binding etc. can acitvate going into gear and cause a stall. that is my understanding. does the engine start up immediately after stall, or do you have to pump the throttle lever? I assume you let the engine warm up before trying to shift...

routing? depends on the year on your transom set up. my shift plate sits behind the engine attached to the bell housing. newer ones have the shift plate attached to the starboard exhaust elbow I believe. so the routing is different. However, the issue for you now is this: when you disconnect the lower shift cable from the shift plate, can you move it back and forth almost effortlessly? can you push it in until it stops, then get out of the boat and verify the prop is locked in the counter clock direction, then pull the cable all the way out and verify the prop is locked in clockwise direction? you can look at the outer sheath of the cable, but you cant see if there is a kink in the inner. you have to feel how the cable moves, and that it is moving freely its full travel. there is a bit of plastic that goes over the outer sheath where it comes near the exhaust pipe to protect from heat, is that installed?

who put the new cable, outdrive etc. on? maybe someone (you?) greased the inner sheath before installing. if it was a shop, I would be asking them to solve this problem.

 

[otgdy]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

otg, you should post the year of your engine and outdrive and the serial numbers. alpha gen 1 or gen 2 ? carburetor or mpi?


yes, interrupt switch only supposed to activate going out of gear, but if cable binding etc. can acitvate going into gear and cause a stall. that is my understanding. does the engine start up immediately after stall, or do you have to pump the throttle lever? I assume you let the engine warm up before trying to shift...

routing? depends on the year on your transom set up. my shift plate sits behind the engine attached to the bell housing. newer ones have the shift plate attached to the starboard exhaust elbow I believe. so the routing is different. However, the issue for you now is this: when you disconnect the lower shift cable from the shift plate, can you move it back and forth almost effortlessly? can you push it in until it stops, then get out of the boat and verify the prop is locked in the counter clock direction, then pull the cable all the way out and verify the prop is locked in clockwise direction? you can look at the outer sheath of the cable, but you cant see if there is a kink in the inner. you have to feel how the cable moves, and that it is moving freely its full travel. there is a bit of plastic that goes over the outer sheath where it comes near the exhaust pipe to protect from heat, is that installed?

who put the new cable, outdrive etc. on? maybe someone (you?) greased the inner sheath before installing. if it was a shop, I would be asking them to solve this problem.

This is a 1984 MERC 260 ( chevy 350) with an Alpha outdrive. This engine has a carburetor.
Thought everyone knew my boat .. it is the only one that holds up traffic going to the ramp then within an hour is holding up traffic leaving the ramp ! LOL
Many people wave to me as they speed by.. LMAO.

There is not sheath next to the exhaust pipe that I can see..
I am guilty I installed the shift cable. Didn't grease it during the installation.
Will check the cable as you stated. I feel I understand the mechanism more now than a couple of days ago.

Anyone know the "normal" charge to replace the shift cable ? ballpark ?


Thanks again
OTG

 

[Don S]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

Read the thread below, and see if it helps you understand the shift interrupt system a little better.

HOW TO: How the Shift Interrupt system works - Page 1 - 288089

 

[84EdH]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

Don, that is a great description of the shift interupter switch you have in the stickies. Do you think it would be beneficial to add a line or two about a bad shift cable causing the boat to stall going into gear?

 

[Don S]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

Don, that is a great description of the shift interupter switch you have in the stickies. Do you think it would be beneficial to add a line or two about a bad shift cable causing the boat to stall going into gear?

Read the next to last paragraph. It already says it.

EDIT: File was updated to be clearer.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Another case of stalling going into gear

Here's a diagram of the shift cable routing: