Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

[OctoberSea]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

I hear you both. I think I'm better able to describe the status now. Agreed on the point of too much stuff going thru the ignition switch - and I'm sure it's not factory wiring. The boat was repowered about 10 years ago, and I'm sure most of the wiring hasn't been touched since then. I bought it last year.

Ignition switch (new one installed today):
B post:

1. + battery (via fuse box on starboard side of motor.
2. supply (+) from ign B to fuse block at dash.
3. Trim tabs.

I post:

1. pink to wiring harness connector X
2. pink (+) to gauges (fuel, oil P, temp, voltage).

S post:

1. brown to harness connector Y (haven?t figured this one out yet, but this 6-wire connector also ties in with some dash lighting; not a ground wire).
2. white lead that runs to the underside of the throttle/shift box, then back up to connect with said harness connector X (the start safety feature)

So, I believe B1 x I1 is my starting leg.

I already pulled the cig lighter off the B post. And I plan to pull the fuse block (+) supply off the B post too? will run a wire/breaker forward of suitable gauge/size.

After removing the alarm circuit board and replacing the ign switch and the oil pressure instrument (old one was sticky). Everything was actually working quite well ? motor started strong, all gauges worked, all looked good. But I was still uneasy about the potential bad ground that started the whole thread, and I got to thinking about that trim tab connection on the B post. So:

Trim tabs?(TT)

1. still worked when I disconnected them from the ign switch. I suspect they were put on the switch years ago, perhaps because the fuse block was getting crowded. I plan to move them off the ignition switch and onto the new fuse block (looked at some Blue Sea models today).
2. For the first time ever? and AFTER getting SilverTip?s post, the TT switch and operation got dicey. SilverTip could smell it coming, apparently. Starboard side good up and down. Port went down but wouldn?t come back up. Then the switch started behaving badly. Intermittent connection on both port and stbd, dimming/flickering overhead cabin lights, etc. Looked like old times that started this mess.

Main Ground:

1. With the TT oddness, I couldn?t resist unfastening and removing the primary aft panels above the deck that obscure the full view of the entire motor and components near/at the transom. I just had to get a full look back there. For the first time, I got a really good look at the connection point of the main ground cable from the (-) battery. Corroded. Not horrible, but bad. Clearly needs cleaning or perhaps moving to a new hole on the engine block.
2. There?s a second, smaller gauge ground wire on the same post as the main ground cable from the (-) battery. I can?t say for sure, but I?m wondering if this is the ground for the TT. That trim tab motor is right back there, and the TT switch is not grounded at the fuse block ? it?s only powered by the B post.

So, where to go from here? I?m going to pull/clean or move the main (-) battery ground. Figure out who owns that second ground wire on the main ground post. And try to figure out if my port TT is dead or not.

I?m glad that I?m getting closer (it seems), but I?m a bit overwhelmed with the variety of things going on? I?d really appreciate any further thoughts/tests/input.

 

[flargin]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

You are getting closer.

a couple of thoughts, as Silvertip indicated, do one thing at a time, it really makes your troubleshooting easier in the long run. If you jump from problem to problem, it takes lot longer.

i.e. "I plan to pull the fuse block (+) supply off the B post too? will run a wire/breaker forward of suitable gauge/size." this is a great idea, but don't do it now, leave it off for the time being, find your problem, and then once everything works, you can choose to run a new line. If you make this major a change in the middle of troubleshooting, you may create a new problem and not be able to figure out what is what... I have done it myself, it is one of those impatient things


This is very interesting: " [Trim Tabs] still worked when I disconnected them from the ign switch."

Can you explain this one further..


Ground, give it a good cleaning, don't move it. Wire brush/wire wheel does a lot to cleanup. Sandpaper if needed. Also, normally, if you had a mercruiser, there is typically a ground to the transom at the same location. Remember, you can bolt on a temporary 'ground' to a piece to see if helps your ground problems. This is a temp solutions, but remember, you may not have a ground problem at all, but a supply/draw problem.

 

[OctoberSea]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

This is very interesting: " [Trim Tabs] still worked when I disconnected them from the ign switch."

Can you explain this one further..

Yep - I wasn't clear. TT worked when I pulled them off the I and ran the the lead to the fuse block (not that they weren't connected). The TT motor is a Bennett hydraulic - model V 351 - single motor, 2 valves. 5 leads at the TT switch: + from B, and one lead each for port/starboard/up/down.

Loud and clear on the focus - you're both right on that. I don't plan to run new fuse boxes for a while yet - didn't mean to suggest that it's imminent due to the fact that this project has made me develop Attn Deficit Disorder. For now - today - I'll clean up the main ground connection and further investigate the TT switch and supply. Either that second smaller gauge wire at the block ground post runs to the TT, or more likely (came to me as I was half-asleep last night) it runs to a ground bar at the transom. I spotted that late last night after pulling the paneling off, and that ground bar accepts leads from the outdrive trim/tilt, bilge blower, etc.

 

[OctoberSea]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

I took off the battery ground cable tonight. After it took 40 minutes and considerable contortionist skills, I couldn't bear the idea of putting it back on the same post. The ground post that the cable was on looked ok once I got the nut off, and the post itself consistently registered a good ground. but the nut at the base of the post is rusted, did not consistently register as ground, and I can't get a wire brush or wheel anywhere near it... the 9/16 wrench barely fit in. If the original ground post wasn't in the mix of the problems, it wasn't at all certain that I could reattach the cable and get a good connection. Then I saw an open hole in the side of the exhaust manifold, in a simply beautiful location. In short, I couldn't resist moving my main ground cable.

Trim tab update: I downloaded the manual last night, and after hooking up both batteries and checking voltage at the dash (all good). The troubleshooting section of the manual indicated that a tab(s) stuck in the down position can indicate low voltage. Tonight, no problems at all. Port tab that was stuck down last night came right back up. Not a ground issue there, as the TT is grounded at the transom (-) bar, which itself is grounded to another post on the port side of the motor.

To boil it down... Really all I did was cut out the audible alarm, replace the ign switch, and make certain that my battery ground was good and solid. Everything is working and I can't replicate a problem. With the exception of the TT oddness last night, I haven't had a single problem since I cut out the audible alarm circuit and replaced the ignition switch. And it's possible that my battery was at a low charge by the time I got around to the TT last night (I only had one battery hooked up at the time). Virtually all acc are still off the fuse block, and i'll reattach all those tomorrow and test the system as I go through it. Part of that will be to pull the TT + off the ignition B, and run it to the fuse block.

Can you guys think of anything else I ought to test/inspect before putting it all back together and putting the boat in the water? In any case, I'll write back after I get everything reconnected and start up the motor again...

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

You've done alot of work on that boat in the last week. I suggest you take her out and make sure an icy cold beverage still makes her feel just right!

 

[OctoberSea]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

Well, all looks good electrically. I put the boat in last night, and all sytems go (running a bit rough, but that's a different topic...). I'm still on the same fuseblock for now, but everything is cleaned, trimmed, and labeled under the dash. Something that was on my 'get to someday' list, now done.

My sincere thanks to all who helped out - especially Flargin, and SilverTip, too - I know this took longer for me than it would for most, but your help still made it go much more quickly than it would have otherwise. Thanks, guys.

 

[flargin]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

Well, all looks good electrically. I put the boat in last night, and all sytems go (running a bit rough, but that's a different topic...). I'm still on the same fuseblock for now, but everything is cleaned, trimmed, and labeled under the dash. Something that was on my 'get to someday' list, now done.

My sincere thanks to all who helped out - especially Flargin, and SilverTip, too - I know this took longer for me than it would for most, but your help still made it go much more quickly than it would have otherwise. Thanks, guys.

Hey, that what this is all about. but thanks for the thanks.

It is a great thing to help others and glad to share experiences... The only way I know is I have had to do the same type of thing.

I should take pictures of my current rats nest I am about to go into ... 20 years of stereo after stereo after lights after fuses. I just looked at the negatives from of the fuse block.. 2 reds, 1 black and 1 blue... tell me that is not going to be fund to try to figure out in the middle of the lake

 

[OctoberSea]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

The final report: all is well. One last modification, I moved my main ground again. Didn't like having it on the exhaust manifold with all that seawater and gaskets, so I moved it over to a sister ground post on the port side of the block. Same post, same purpose, but far easier to get to and maintain.

And that rough-running spell I had was completely solved by a new cap and rotor. I love those $35 fixes, with no $80/hr bills from the marine mechanic...

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Bad Ground?? Please help me stop cursing.

one battery should be sufficient to run anything on the boat. If it takes two batteries in parallel to make things work, you still have a problem. 1) discharged battery, 2) bad battery, 3) battery too small for the job.