Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

[81 Checkmate]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Burrro - Did you personaly see the leak before you had the bellows done by the 1st mech?
Is it leaking now from the same location?

Just maybe the mech didnt do a quality job and is covering up his mistakes by saying the transom is shot!

9yr old boat...Has this thing been sitting outside....No cover and water loged all its life for it to have a rotted transom already.

Id get a third look at it and go with them when they water test to find the leak.

$900 is alot money for just a look see.

Good Luck!

 

[saumon]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Ok, find this http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=571061. Seems the OP have a 2003 VIP vision with merc Alpha1 4.3L (and that the leaking problem was there from day 1!).

 

[Burro237]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

See thats exactly what I fear. That the guy did shoddy work and is now quoting me some outrageous prices just to "figure out" what else it might be. The boat is an 18 foot glass runabout with mercruiser 4.3L Alpha 1 Gen 2. I can not see it being completely rotten, then again I have no idea. I did not see where the leak was coming before bringing ii in. I stil can not see it.

To answer some other questions; The $900 that mechanic # 1 quoted was for disconnecting the engine, lifting it, droping the boat in the water, finding the leak, and putting the engine back in the boat and reconnecting everything. And, No, I can not do this myself. I often work 60hrs a week at my job. I called the second mechanic to tell him that I wasn't so sure about the first mechanic's work and prices. So I asked how much he would charge to pull the engine...he asked why...I told him I had a mystery leak that was not cured by replacing the bellows and seals, and that the other mechanic told me that pulling the engine was the only way to find the leak. He said that he could find the leak by tilting the boat and putting water in it to see where it leaks out. Thats when he recommended resealing the outdrive if thats where the leak was coming from.

Honestly, the vibe I'm getting is that neither one of them really seem to know what they're talking about. I have already tried filing it up with water and the only trickle of water I can see coming out is coming from the drain plug...and it is very light. For all I know, the leak is coming from the hull. Again, that is why sealing it with 5200 sounds like a decent temporary option, because at least then I will know that it is the source of the leak.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right. ~Hannah Whitall Smith

 

[saumon]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Peoples here are giving you great advices but you obviously don't want to hear them. It's sometimes called "magical thinking"...

Go see a third reputable mechanic. It will cost you at least a couple hundred dollars to assess the damages then anything from $200 (replace a couple of rubber seals) to $2000 (completely shot transom) to fix it.

But, as it's not what you want to hear, go at West Marine, buy a $20 tube of 5200, put it in the caulking gun and try sealing everything then go for a ride. You'll only loose $20...:facepalm:

 

[Burro237]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Ok, find this http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=571061. Seems the OP have a 2003 VIP vision with merc Alpha1 4.3L (and that the leaking problem was there from day 1!).

OOOO....KKKK? What's your point? Not sure what you mean by day 1. Day 1 for me was 7 weeks ago or so. Any one who's ever used a forum knows that you can look up a persons previous posts just with their screen name. I did not mean to imply that it was not leaking when I bought it, I just did not want to go through the whole ordeal of explaining the purchase and everything again just to ask a simple question. I got in touch with the original owner because of some license and registration issues and took the boat to him. He may be lying, but I don't see why at this point.(He is not the one I bought the boat from) He did mention that there was some engine trouble, but that he had a valve replacement done and that it seemed to be fine after that. He bought the boat new 9 years ago from a dealership and serviced it through them for most of the time he had it. I went to see them, and they said they serviced it up until 2 years ago, and there was no problem with it leaking. He sold it to a guy last year who sold it to me two months ago. So when I say that it started leaking recently, I mean I believe it started within the past year.

Now, through all this, no one, not on this forum, or the 3 mechanics I've talked to can explain how a 9 year old boat with relatively little useand in excellent external condition could just start leaking. It doesn't just happen. What causes it? Was it wrecked? Was it not built properly? Was it improperly maintained? Did the mechanic who did the engine work pull the motor and improperly reinstall it? What? We are not talking about a 35 year old boat that has been sitting in the water unmaintained for years.

I understand and appreciate the recommendations not to go with the guy who says he'll seal it. I've got the answer I was looking for, that what he told me is not true, and that it is not the "normal" way to handle a transom leak. Now its a matter of using process of elimination to figure out where it is coming from for sure, before diving into thousands of dollars worth of repairs to the transom, that may not even be the source of the leak.

 

[emoney]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

I'm afraid you're trying to apply the "Oh, it can't be anything serious" logic because it fits the budget a lot better, and any responses you've gotten outside of that you are discounting. Don't feel isolated, a lot of folks do just that, however, it rarely solves any problems you have. What you need to do is find out where your problem lies and stop supposing that "it can't be that because it's too new" because anything man-made can fail. A boat can sit outside, uncovered for 2 years and water intrusion can begin, especially boats that are left in the water or exposed to a lot of rain. The responses and advice you're receiving comes from a platform of experience. Your current boat isn't relevant, as these guys are saying "I would do "X" because they've been there before.

If you really want to diagnose this leak, then you need to start off with, "HOuston, I have a problem. Here's what I've done", and then include as much informatoin as possible to include pictures.

As for both those mechanics you've mentioned, already there's a little gray area there because if you diagnosed the problem, took it to Mechanic #1 and he did what you said was wrong, then the fault doesn't lie in his lap. As to #2, you called the guy on the phone and basically started off by implying you had been taken advantage of by #1. So, unless he's got Superman X-Ray vision, he hasn't even seen your boat is only giving you again, things he's done in the past to other boats, not yours.

You also have the advantage of ignoring all the advice and instruction given you, assuming everyone is out to get you, and keep throwing good money after bad, or worse, putting band-aids on major wounds. I'm sure that a huge percentage of folks who have had their boats sink were given advice that they too ignored. It's not the world against you. These guys will help you if you will help them by providing all the information.

 

[laserbrn]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

I have bad news....9 years is a long time. I can't believe you just tried to apply hr 'it worked perfectly fine 9 years ago' logic.

To answer your question it is really easy to have a boat that leaks after nine years. Especially if important maintenance was put off. Boats aren't cars and I am convinced that out drives were designed by boat builders to sink more boats.

 

[coreybv]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Now, through all this, no one, not on this forum, or the 3 mechanics I've talked to can explain how a 9 year old boat with relatively little useand in excellent external condition could just start leaking. It doesn't just happen. What causes it? Was it wrecked? Was it not built properly? Was it improperly maintained? Did the mechanic who did the engine work pull the motor and improperly reinstall it? What? We are not talking about a 35 year old boat that has been sitting in the water unmaintained for years.

9 years is PLENTY of time for even a well-maintained boat to develop issues. And you don't have any way of knowing that it was "well maintained" as you claim. Of course a previous owner will tell you it was, pretty much everybody thinks they're taking good care of their boat whether they really are or not. The world is full of boat owners who spend many hours wiping, rubbing, and polishing to keep their boats looking shiny and new. They deem their boat "well maintained" even though the hull has been full of water for 2 years and is rotting away and the engine is running 3 quarts low...

Oh, and this should be taught on Day 1 of "boat school": The external, cosmetic condition of the boat tells you exactly zilch about whether it's in good shape of not.

You might or might not be able to figure out where the leak is coming from without pulling the engine. But a proper repair is likely to require it, so you might as well get it over with.

I'd be highly inclined to find the time to do the work myself. You'd be surprised how much you can get done if you devote a few Sunday afternoons to the task. From the numbers that mechanic #1 is throwing around, I wouldn't find it shocking at all if his bill exceeds the value of the boat by the time this is all said.

Don't let yourself get caught up in the "it's only 9 years old" thing. Boats lead rough lives, it's just what they're meant for. 9 years is plenty of time for even the highest quality and best maintained boat to require a repair or two. And, yes, even if the outside is still shiny and pretty.

 

[dlngr]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

I've heard of brand new boats leaking. This boat could have had a tiny leak since new,the selling dealer just never mentioned it to the original owner,or the original owner just ignored it.How many times have we read on this forum that someone was told a little water in the bilge was "normal"! On the cheap-***** Lowe I bought last ,I replaced the transom wood,but had a stubborn leak at one of the screws just below the water line. My Lund has no such screw holes below the water line,just a better design..

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Burro, with all due respect you need to sit back a moment and realize your boat could very easily have a rotten transom, 9 years is nothing in the right conditions, but none of us know specifically or accurately what the boat has seen over its 9 years, we only know what has happened since you have been in possession of the boat, so lets not assume anything at this point as to the condition of your transom, lets do some research on your boat and find out what the condition is for sure and then we can move on to fixing the leak.

The most common way to check a transom is to drill several holes into the wood of the transom from the inside (the wood should be encased in glass) and look at the wood as it is removed by the drill bit, clean dry wood is good dark wet wood is bad, simple easy way answer this on your own. Be careful to not drill completely through the transom and seal the holes if everything looks good.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

OOOO....KKKK? What's your point? Not sure what you mean by day 1. Day 1 for me was 7 weeks ago or so. Any one who's ever used a forum knows that you can look up a persons previous posts just with their screen name. I did not mean to imply that it was not leaking when I bought it, I just did not want to go through the whole ordeal of explaining the purchase and everything again just to ask a simple question. I got in touch with the original owner because of some license and registration issues and took the boat to him. He may be lying, but I don't see why at this point.(He is not the one I bought the boat from) He did mention that there was some engine trouble, but that he had a valve replacement done and that it seemed to be fine after that. He bought the boat new 9 years ago from a dealership and serviced it through them for most of the time he had it. I went to see them, and they said they serviced it up until 2 years ago, and there was no problem with it leaking. He sold it to a guy last year who sold it to me two months ago. So when I say that it started leaking recently, I mean I believe it started within the past year.

Now, through all this, no one, not on this forum, or the 3 mechanics I've talked to can explain how a 9 year old boat with relatively little useand in excellent external condition could just start leaking. It doesn't just happen. What causes it? Was it wrecked? Was it not built properly? Was it improperly maintained? Did the mechanic who did the engine work pull the motor and improperly reinstall it? What? We are not talking about a 35 year old boat that has been sitting in the water unmaintained for years.

I understand and appreciate the recommendations not to go with the guy who says he'll seal it. I've got the answer I was looking for, that what he told me is not true, and that it is not the "normal" way to handle a transom leak. Now its a matter of using process of elimination to figure out where it is coming from for sure, before diving into thousands of dollars worth of repairs to the transom, that may not even be the source of the leak.

Ayuh,... There is No, Usual places for it to leak,... Every hull is Different,....

Take it to a boat launch, 'n back it into the water,...
Then crawl in, pull the motorbox, 'n LOOK...

You'll probably need a mirror, or better yet a digital camera,...
FIND the leak, Then We can help ya get it Fixed...

 

[keith2k455]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Let's say worst case scenario, water has intruded to the point where the transom is starting to rot, as proposed by mech. #2. His suggestion is to use some 5200. That alone would make me never go back to him. The first mechanic is doing the right thing. Find the leak and assess any potential damage. Then discuss findings and potential next actions. There's no sense in listing every possible thing it might be. Get in there and see what it is, not what it might be, and go from there.

This is what I think... #2 is no more than a band aid man who will cover up problems you'll only find later when they're too big for a band aid

#1 seems a perfectionist who doesn't want anyone in his business ... But the problem is that it isn't HIS business ... It's YOUR business.

By your comments you need to find a mechanic who's a mix of the two. A frustrating thing to do but worth it in the long run.

 

[Burro237]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Ok, I think whats going on from some of the responses is that people are confused about my problem or what I am asking...thats my fault for not being clear I guess, so let me start over.
1) I have a leak somewhere in the boat.
2) I don't know where its coming from, or how long its been there.
3) Its not the shift cable bellows, or gimbal seals any of that stuff, since it was just replaced, assuming that mechanic # 1 did the job properly.

You guys are saying that the only thing else to do to find the leak in the transom is to pull the engine, but I DONT KNOW IF THE TRANSOM IS LEAKING... it could be coming from the hull.

Im not looking for a cheap solution and Im not ignoring the advice here. I am just using simple process of elimination to try to find my leak. If your car doesnt start in the morning, do you take it to a mechanic and tell him to rebuild the engine? No, you look at the cheapest possible cause and then you go from there. I understand that sealing it will not permanently cure the problem, thats why I asked, it did not sound right to me either. I will try to seal the back of the boat TEMPORARILY, just to make sure that is the source of the leak. I'm no longer hoping that it is a majic cure, I AM ACCEPTING YOUR ADVICE. However, If I seal it and put it in the water and it no longer leaks, then I know its the transom and I will look for someone reputable to repair it. If it is still leaking, then I need to start looking at other points of the boat for the leak.

 

[coreybv]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

No, you look at the cheapest possible cause and then you go from there.

Hmm... Nope. I would be much more inclined to look at the most likely cause, and then go from there.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Ok, I think whats going on from some of the responses is that people are confused about my problem or what I am asking...thats my fault for not being clear I guess, so let me start over.
1) I have a leak somewhere in the boat.
2) I don't know where its coming from, or how long its been there.
3) Its not the shift cable bellows, or gimbal seals any of that stuff, since it was just replaced, assuming that mechanic # 1 did the job properly.

You guys are saying that the only thing else to do to find the leak in the transom is to pull the engine, but I DONT KNOW IF THE TRANSOM IS LEAKING... it could be coming from the hull.

Im not looking for a cheap solution and Im not ignoring the advice here. I am just using simple process of elimination to try to find my leak. If your car doesnt start in the morning, do you take it to a mechanic and tell him to rebuild the engine? No, you look at the cheapest possible cause and then you go from there. I understand that sealing it will not permanently cure the problem, thats why I asked, it did not sound right to me either. I will try to seal the back of the boat TEMPORARILY, just to make sure that is the source of the leak. I'm no longer hoping that it is a majic cure, I AM ACCEPTING YOUR ADVICE. However, If I seal it and put it in the water and it no longer leaks, then I know its the transom and I will look for someone reputable to repair it. If it is still leaking, then I need to start looking at other points of the boat for the leak.

Ayuh,... Reread post #33....

Yer Avoidin' doin' it the Right way, 'n still Hopin' for a Cheap answer,...

With a tiny 18' boat, this ain't rocket science... ya just gotta Look...

 

[Burro237]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

So your saying I should dismantle the boat without even checking to make sure that the leak is not coming from the hull? Thats illogical. I'm not looking for a cheap answer, I already stated repeatedly that I would be willing to replace the transom if need be. But I'm not going to risk paying to remove the engine just to find out the leak is coming from somewhere else.

 

[Don S]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Yes, If you put sealer around the outside of the gimbal housing and the leak stops, then you know you will have to pull the engine, drive, and gimbal housing to fix the transom.
Silicone will work nicely for the test, won't be nearly as tough to get off things as 5200 would be if that is the problem.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

So your saying I should dismantle the boat without even checking to make sure that the leak is not coming from the hull? Thats illogical. I'm not looking for a cheap answer, I already stated repeatedly that I would be willing to replace the transom if need be. But I'm not going to risk paying to remove the engine just to find out the leak is coming from somewhere else.

Nope,.... Just drag the boat to the launch, as it is, today, 'n back it into the Water....

Then, LOOK for the leak...

I, personally, don't consider pullin' the motor cover off,... Dismantlin' the boat...

Donno 'bout yer's, but mine just lifts off, outa the way...

 

[Burro237]

Re: Boat Repair; two mechanics with wildly different recommendations. Which one?

Hey man, I have done that, three times now. Can not see it.