Boat values

[Boaterdan278michigan]

We have been looking into purchasing a used boat. We've narrowed the search to three specific brands and models. When reviewing the boats I've checked Buc value and NADA guide. In almost every case, the boats list for a sale price 10-15% over book values. Sellers do not want to move off their asking price. Are the guides incorrect or low with their established value? I imagine it's influenced by the inordinate amount of brokers flooding social media with their inflated pricing. I haven't purchased a boat in twenty-five years. There was a time when most everything could be purchased for 10% under asking price.

 

[JustJason]

I'm a surveyor and part of my job is performing unbiased appraisals, which hold up to scrutiny in court.

Are you looking at a boat or a yacht? Do you plan on having it surveyed?

The book values are just the opinion of the book value company. They aggregate data, sprinkle their fairy dust on it, and come up with a number. Sometimes it is somewhat accurate, other times it's not. Buc usually assigns a high value, NADA/JD Power is usually in the middle, ABOS/Price Digest is usually low. But it's just a book value, and does not account for the condition of the vessel, which is everything. When I do appraisals, I try not to look at book values unless there is simply no other reliable data available. Anybody can point to a "book value"; appraisals take work and methodology.

The market changed completely during covid. People purchased boats way over what they were actually worth at the time. The market peaked approximately in late 2021, and it's been a downhill ride since then. The people who purchased boats then, especially if they took out a loan, are taking an absolute bath on them, which is why they would rather hold the boat, make the monthly payments, versus selling low/what the actual today's value is. Other times, they may not be able to sell the boat and satisfy the lien at the same time if they do not have the cash on hand. Right now, a specific segment of the recreational boating market has absolutely crashed; people just don't want to admit it because doing so would be admitting they made a poor decision during covid by overpaying when everyone (ahem, me) told them at the time.

Finally, brokers are idiots, and they are not your friend. If they were able to do something useful with their lives, they wouldn't be selling used boats. They get a fixed percentage of the sale price of the vessel, which means they are incentivized by you overpaying for a boat.

What are you looking at exactly?

 

[RonanVale]

Yeah, everyone thinks their boat’s “special” and worth more than book value . Just wait a bit - winter’s coming and prices usually soften when storage bills hit.

 

[RGrew176]

A used boat is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Book values are only a guide.

 

[tpenfield]

There is nothing hard & fast about boat pricing. Yes, everybody thinks their boat is worth more money than the next person's.

The truth of it all is that boats sell from the bottom of the asking price range. Here is a graph that I frequently do on various boat's asking prices. The line is the 'average' (regression) of the asking prices. Guess which boats sell and which ones don't . . .


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I have seen boats sit on the market for years . . . yet same brand and models are selling . . . all at prices at the lower end of the range of asking prices. The person at the higher prices just sits and waits for a buyer that will never come. It is only if/when they lower their price to be competitive with other same/similar boats do they actually sell.

In the most recent buying experience that I had, there was a boat in my town . . . the make & model that we wanted . . . the asking price was high. The seller showed no desire to lower the price. . . it sat . . . we went on to buy the same brand/model elsewhere at a lower price.

The boat eventually did sell . . . at 75% of the original asking price. Had we been offered that price (or close to it) through negotiations, we would have bought it. In the end, the original seller sold the boat for what it was worth (to somebody) and took and extra 6 months to do it.

Anyway . . .

• Expect most of the boats to have asking prices that are more than they are worth.
• Treat BUC and NADA as guides not gospel.
• Be mindful of what the boat is worth to you.
• Since you are looking at fairly common boats, you can assess average asking prices and work from the lower end. Sure, take a look at the higher asking priced boats, express interest as warranted, but don't get your hopes up for a highly negotiated price.

 

[tpenfield]

FWIW -
I purchased a boat in 2021 for 10% under asking price,
a boat in 2012 for 5% under asking price,
and a boat in 2004 for asking price.

However . . . most of these asking prices were on the lower end of the range of asking prices for same/similar boats.

 

[JustJason]

The other thing to add is that most of you do not have access to Soldboats.com, which is similar to an MLS for houses.

Soldsboats tells you the asking price, selling price, days on the market, and the location. But it does not tell you the condition.

When getting into appraisals, when you have the ask and sell prices, and days on the market, you can plot an average deviation. For example, you may find that model XYZ historically, on average, sells for X% below the asking price. The average deviation will also provide some idea if the model one is looking at is in demand or not. The more comparable sales you have, the more accurate the data is.

 

[racerone]

If you are shopping for a boat , just wait.---Good deals may be out there.

 

[aspeck]

When I bought my current boat I waited 2 years to find the right boat at the right price for me. Be patient and know what YOU want to spend. You are the buyer so you get to determine what you will pay. I didn't care that the boat I bought was MORE than what I wanted at the time and that the asking price and book value was 35% more than what I was willing to pay, but I made my offer and told them what I was going to pay while praising their boat and letting them know it wasn't about the boat it was my upper limit. Patience won and so did I.

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

I'm a surveyor and part of my job is performing unbiased appraisals, which hold up to scrutiny in court.

Are you looking at a boat or a yacht? Do you plan on having it surveyed?

The book values are just the opinion of the book value company. They aggregate data, sprinkle their fairy dust on it, and come up with a number. Sometimes it is somewhat accurate, other times it's not. Buc usually assigns a high value, NADA/JD Power is usually in the middle, ABOS/Price Digest is usually low. But it's just a book value, and does not account for the condition of the vessel, which is everything. When I do appraisals, I try not to look at book values unless there is simply no other reliable data available. Anybody can point to a "book value"; appraisals take work and methodology.

The market changed completely during covid. People purchased boats way over what they were actually worth at the time. The market peaked approximately in late 2021, and it's been a downhill ride since then. The people who purchased boats then, especially if they took out a loan, are taking an absolute bath on them, which is why they would rather hold the boat, make the monthly payments, versus selling low/what the actual today's value is. Other times, they may not be able to sell the boat and satisfy the lien at the same time if they do not have the cash on hand. Right now, a specific segment of the recreational boating market has absolutely crashed; people just don't want to admit it because doing so would be admitting they made a poor decision during covid by overpaying when everyone (ahem, me) told them at the time.

Finally, brokers are idiots, and they are not your friend. If they were able to do something useful with their lives, they wouldn't be selling used boats. They get a fixed percentage of the sale price of the vessel, which means they are incentivized by you overpaying for a boat.

What are you looking at exactly?

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

I'm a surveyor and part of my job is performing unbiased appraisals, which hold up to scrutiny in court.

Are you looking at a boat or a yacht? Do you plan on having it surveyed?

The book values are just the opinion of the book value company. They aggregate data, sprinkle their fairy dust on it, and come up with a number. Sometimes it is somewhat accurate, other times it's not. Buc usually assigns a high value, NADA/JD Power is usually in the middle, ABOS/Price Digest is usually low. But it's just a book value, and does not account for the condition of the vessel, which is everything. When I do appraisals, I try not to look at book values unless there is simply no other reliable data available. Anybody can point to a "book value"; appraisals take work and methodology.

The market changed completely during covid. People purchased boats way over what they were actually worth at the time. The market peaked approximately in late 2021, and it's been a downhill ride since then. The people who purchased boats then, especially if they took out a loan, are taking an absolute bath on them, which is why they would rather hold the boat, make the monthly payments, versus selling low/what the actual today's value is. Other times, they may not be able to sell the boat and satisfy the lien at the same time if they do not have the cash on hand. Right now, a specific segment of the recreational boating market has absolutely crashed; people just don't want to admit it because doing so would be admitting they made a poor decision during covid by overpaying when everyone (ahem, me) told them at the time.

Finally, brokers are idiots, and they are not your friend. If they were able to do something useful with their lives, they wouldn't be selling used boats. They get a fixed percentage of the sale price of the vessel, which means they are incentivized by you overpaying for a boat.

What are you looking at exactly?

We are looking cruisers on the 32-34 foot range. Specifically we're interested in fresh water, early 2000's, Sea Ray 320 or Formula 34 PC.

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

We are looking cruisers on the 32-34 foot range. Specifically we're interested in fresh water, early 2000's, Sea Ray 320 or Formula 34 PC

I'm a surveyor and part of my job is performing unbiased appraisals, which hold up to scrutiny in court.

Are you looking at a boat or a yacht? Do you plan on having it surveyed?

The book values are just the opinion of the book value company. They aggregate data, sprinkle their fairy dust on it, and come up with a number. Sometimes it is somewhat accurate, other times it's not. Buc usually assigns a high value, NADA/JD Power is usually in the middle, ABOS/Price Digest is usually low. But it's just a book value, and does not account for the condition of the vessel, which is everything. When I do appraisals, I try not to look at book values unless there is simply no other reliable data available. Anybody can point to a "book value"; appraisals take work and methodology.

The market changed completely during covid. People purchased boats way over what they were actually worth at the time. The market peaked approximately in late 2021, and it's been a downhill ride since then. The people who purchased boats then, especially if they took out a loan, are taking an absolute bath on them, which is why they would rather hold the boat, make the monthly payments, versus selling low/what the actual today's value is. Other times, they may not be able to sell the boat and satisfy the lien at the same time if they do not have the cash on hand. Right now, a specific segment of the recreational boating market has absolutely crashed; people just don't want to admit it because doing so would be admitting they made a poor decision during covid by overpaying when everyone (ahem, me) told them at the time.

Finally, brokers are idiots, and they are not your friend. If they were able to do something useful with their lives, they wouldn't be selling used boats. They get a fixed percentage of the sale price of the vessel, which means they are incentivized by you overpaying for a boat.

What are you looking at exactly?

 

[redneck joe]

Had a old guy tell me once is the seller isn't pissed at you when money changes hands you paid too much.

 

[tphoyt]

The last skiff I sold I would have been happy with 4k and that was what I was going to ask for it and a buddy told me I was nuts and should ask for 6k so I did and I got $5,800 for it in 3 days on the market. It just takes the right buyer and a seller that isn’t to far out of touch I guess.

 

[tpenfield]

Here is some SeaRay data . . . there is probably more boats out there, but this is a good sample.

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I would think that there is not a huge difference in condition among these boats, and price does not necessarily reflect condition. but it gives you some perspective on where to spend your time.

 

[tpenfield]

The graph tells me that there is a $7-8K increase per year in the average pricing. So, in terms of 'newness' and any desirable features of the newer models, there is your expected price increase per year.

 

[tpenfield]

Here is some Formula 34PC data . . .

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Formula prices are 30% higher than SeaRay, and keep in mind the at 20 years old brands may not make much difference.

Also, keep in mind that in/about 2004-2005 the boat companies were switching over from regular marine plywood to rot resistant plywood (KDAT). Brand names of plywood that you might see in product brochures are 'Perma Panel' and 'Greenwood XL'.

 

[tpenfield]

Also, this is how I typically look at boat markets . . .
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Your time is best spent in the 'green' zone, IMO.

 

[Earl Cordova]

Had a old guy tell me once, if the seller isn't pissed at you when money changes hands you paid too much.

That perfectly explains what happened when we purchased our only used boat.
It was from what I thought was a friend and I paid his asking price.
He was so mad at me, he never talked to me again.

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

Here is some SeaRay data . . . there is probably more boats out there, but this is a good sample.
View attachment 413385
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View attachment 413384
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I would think that there is not a huge difference in condition among these boats, and price does not necessarily reflect condition. but it gives you some perspective on where to spend your time.

Here is some Formula 34PC data . . .
View attachment 413387
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View attachment 413386
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Formula prices are 30% higher than SeaRay, and keep in mind the at 20 years old brands may not make much difference.

Also, keep in mind that in/about 2004-2005 the boat companies were switching over from regular marine plywood to rot resistant plywood (KDAT). Brand names of plywood that you might see in product brochures are 'Perma Panel' and 'Greenwood XL'.

This is amazingly valuable information. I read that many Sea Rays switched to FRP stringers 2004 and forward.