Capacity Plates

dxpaper

Recruit
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
5
Is the government of Canada or the USA planning to change the capacity plate ratings for max motor size to reflect the weight different between the 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines?
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
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May 19, 2001
Messages
26,069
Re: Capacity Plates

Some manufacturing companies have picked up on it. They post MAX HP (which is determined bu hull design and dimensions) and some have posted MAX Weight for the transom to cover them as a manufacturer. I have not seen any 100% trend
 

82rude

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
4,082
Re: Capacity Plates

quite honestly i would think most manf. have all ready done that and the max is with a 4 stroke figured in allready.
 

H20Rat

Vice Admiral
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
5,204
Re: Capacity Plates

4 strokes are getting down to 2 stroke weight now, so there really isn't much of a difference. Also, those plates aren't really associated with a government in any way, it is the manufacturer who decides what goes on the plate.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,762
Re: Capacity Plates

4 strokes have been around for over 50 years !!

Weight is weight, hp is hp, total weight is total weight.
 

jestor68

Commander
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
2,308
Re: Capacity Plates

A 150(Mercury) 2 stroke weighs 431. A 150 4 stroke weighs 455. A 150 Verado weighs 510. The most weight difference is 79lbs.

Big brother has nothing to do with capacities; except for enforcement. He doesn't care if it's a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke. If it says 150; you can hang a 150 on it; doesn't matter if it's a 1976 or a 2013 motor.

Don't worry; be happy! :)
 

airdvr1227

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
1,666
Re: Capacity Plates

vp3239140_13_large.jpg Something has changed. This is the plate from a 2005 Bentley 20' Cruise. Nothing special...2 logs. A new 20' Bennington gets a plate that says 9.
 

mrdancer

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
235
Re: Capacity Plates

View attachment 195125 Something has changed. This is the plate from a 2005 Bentley 20' Cruise. Nothing special...2 logs. A new 20' Bennington gets a plate that says 9.

What has changed is the calculation for average weight per person. On December 1, 2011, it was changed to 185lbs per person [46 CFR 170.090(g)], presumably to reflect the fact that U.S. citizens are getting larger (and probably fatter). Prior to that date, the AAWPP (Assumed Average Weight Per Person) was 160lbs for offshore vessels, and 140lbs for vessels operating in protected waters.

This increase in AAWPP had been discussed for years and boat manufacturers were well aware that it was coming. They just didn't know when, exactly. Therefore, most started changing the rating on their boats even before the regulation came into effect. It was good CYA policy from a liability standpoint, also.
 

robopath

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
40
Re: Capacity Plates

What has changed is the calculation for average weight per person. On December 1, 2011, it was changed to 185lbs per person [46 CFR 170.090(g)], presumably to reflect the fact that U.S. citizens are getting larger (and probably fatter). Prior to that date, the AAWPP (Assumed Average Weight Per Person) was 160lbs for offshore vessels, and 140lbs for vessels operating in protected waters.

This increase in AAWPP had been discussed for years and boat manufacturers were well aware that it was coming. They just didn't know when, exactly. Therefore, most started changing the rating on their boats even before the regulation came into effect. It was good CYA policy from a liability standpoint, also.

I have a 2013 19 ft Four Winns, the plate is for 9 and 1,350. That is 150 per person.
Also, the updated Michigan online boating safety class still lists it as 150 lbs average.
Michigan Boating License and Boat Safety Course - Capacity and Float Plans
 

BobGinCO

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
539
Re: Capacity Plates

View attachment 195125 Something has changed. This is the plate from a 2005 Bentley 20' Cruise. Nothing special...2 logs. A new 20' Bennington gets a plate that says 9.

If I had my way, my 24' would say Max 6 People. I like my space! I would also compare the DIAMETER of the tubes between that Bentley and the Bennington.
 

mrdancer

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
235
Re: Capacity Plates

I have a 2013 19 ft Four Winns, the plate is for 9 and 1,350. That is 150 per person.
Also, the updated Michigan online boating safety class still lists it as 150 lbs average.
Michigan Boating License and Boat Safety Course - Capacity and Float Plans

Don't know what to tell you - I'm just the messenger. Perhaps Michigan has their own state policies (which, of course, are superceded by federal regulations), or they just haven't updated their websites yet. As for your boat, weight capacity and "persons capacity" may be calculated differently depending on the mfr. If the boat manufacturer exceeds USCG recommendations, then the liability is on them.

Some links:
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...t-and-inspected-vessel-stability-requirements

Assumed Average Weight Per Person (AAWPP)

46 CFR 170.090 - Calculations. | Title 46 - Shipping | Code of Federal Regulations | LII / Legal Information Institute

Additionally, boats from 20' to 26' do not require capacity placards from the U.S. Coast Guard. However, NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Association) has developed capacities based on boat weight and displacement:

http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets...y_Standards_on_Passenger_Weight_5-25-06_2.pdf

NMMA formula: Max Weight Capacity = (Db - Wb)/5, where Db = displacement of boat, Wb = weight of boat, and 5 = safety factor

Boats over 26' generally follow ABYC standards.
 

robopath

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
40
Re: Capacity Plates

Don't know what to tell you - I'm just the messenger. Perhaps Michigan has their own state policies (which, of course, are superceded by federal regulations), or they just haven't updated their websites yet. As for your boat, weight capacity and "persons capacity" may be calculated differently depending on the mfr. If the boat manufacturer exceeds USCG recommendations, then the liability is on them.

Some links:
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...t-and-inspected-vessel-stability-requirements

Assumed Average Weight Per Person (AAWPP)

46 CFR 170.090 - Calculations. | Title 46 - Shipping | Code of Federal Regulations | LII / Legal Information Institute

Additionally, boats from 20' to 26' do not require capacity placards from the U.S. Coast Guard. However, NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Association) has developed capacities based on boat weight and displacement:

http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets...y_Standards_on_Passenger_Weight_5-25-06_2.pdf

NMMA formula: Max Weight Capacity = (Db - Wb)/5, where Db = displacement of boat, Wb = weight of boat, and 5 = safety factor

Boats over 26' generally follow ABYC standards.

Interesting, thanks for the links. Not that I'm worried about it since I usually haul a lot of kids, just curious. 185 does seem high since your average boat likely has some women and kids that weigh much less than 150. You got me thinking about the other 2013 boats that I looked at. The Cobalt 200 is 11 and 1515 (138 per??) and the Chapparal 196 is 9 and 1260 (140 per).

Cobalt Boats - 200 Bowrider
2013 Chaparral 196 SSi WT Sport Boat
 

mrdancer

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
235
Re: Capacity Plates

Interesting, thanks for the links. Not that I'm worried about it since I usually haul a lot of kids, just curious. 185 does seem high since your average boat likely has some women and kids that weigh much less than 150. You got me thinking about the other 2013 boats that I looked at. The Cobalt 200 is 11 and 1515 (138 per??) and the Chapparal 196 is 9 and 1260 (140 per).

Cobalt Boats - 200 Bowrider
2013 Chaparral 196 SSi WT Sport Boat

It is interesting to read through the comment section:

https://www.federalregister.gov/art...-inspected-vessel-stability-requirements#h-28

They actually address the issue of children and persons of smaller stature, and notes that the OCMI (Officer in Command, Marine Inspection) has the authority and responsibility to take all of those factors into consideration. It seems like they used some common sense in developing the regulations, but it may ultimately be up to your local USCG inspector to determine if you are OK.

The boat manufacturers use a number of factors in determining weight and person capacity, especially boat stability when loaded. If they can show the USCG that they pass stability tests for a certain weight on board, then they can certify it for that weight. In reading through the Register, it sounds like mfrs. may have up to four years to get certification, although it is a little unclear. You can bet that they are not using the backyard rule-of-thumb formulas - those are mostly for home-made boat builders and boats with no plates, and are rather conservative by nature.
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: Capacity Plates

the bentley plate above has two weight capacities, and allows 550# for the 90 HP motor. The total weight capacity is the higher number 2745# b/c it includes the motor.

i think is it much more useful for the consumer to account for the motor weight before giving the weight/passenger limit. But even that is a fiction b/c no consumer can accurately calculate all his gear weight; from gasoline to anchor.

Keep in mind that some boats have a higher or lower capacity based on hull design, so you can't just divide the passenger limit into the weight limit. (I have a 17' ocean kayak (wood, rubber and canvas) that has a 700# payload and there is no way you could squeeze 3 adults in it, much less 4 @ 160# each.) Part of the equation is the manufacturer's safety recommendation.

After all, you wouldn't put 2100# of gear and no people in a boat; there's always at least one person!

The plates are just guidelines. However, some states have adopted them as "law" in that any violation of the plate violates "safe operation." Other states say a violation is evidence but not proof of unsafe operation, so you could argue that 6 skinny 8 year old girls plus you may violate the 6 passenger rule but is still safe.
 
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