creation science vs. evolution

mellowyellow

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

fair enough guys.<br /><br />sorry carp, I am no mathematical genius, but there<br />is most certainly a formula. it has to do with the<br />angle of the light being received compared to the<br />current location of the star ?????<br />not enough of an egghead, sorry :p
 

mellowyellow

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

"... and on the 302nd post, the creator of the<br />thread looked at what he had created and it was good"<br />"... and on the 8th day he retired, bought a nice<br />boat and spent his time enjoying it all out on the<br />lake fishing :D "
 

Carphunter

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

Very well said NMplayer.<br /><br />Like I would understand the formula if someone posted it. :p <br /><br />Let me tell ya my favorite formula: "The shortest distance between two points is a straight stick".<br /><br />Really, I kinda like your old saying Mellow, "No matter how ugly you are, we can still wet a line together",...........................or was it, "No matter how wet you are, we can always stand in line together" .........................or, "If you get out of line, we can always get wet together".......................or something like that. :eek: :D
 

mellowyellow

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

I hereby damn thee carp to teach all Iboats blonde<br />wives to back up the boat at the launch :p <br />hell hath no fury as a....<br />time to let this thread pass away now bro ;)
 

Carphunter

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

Mellow, do you really want this thread to pass, its not at 6 pages yet. :p <br /><br />I will respectfully bow out of this thread, as I only have goofy replies left. :eek: <br /><br />........in case Kenny reads this, your streams thread has officially been beaten. :D
 

JasonJ

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

It probably is time for this thread to end, but to comment on the statment about telescopes that look into the past, all telescopes look into the past. Most stars you look at are long dead. We have no idea what is out there right now, all we are seeing is light that emitted from stars millions of years ago. In a way it is daunting because for all we know the universe could be ending and we can't see it. The current calculated "theory" of how old the universe is is based on the oldest light we have recieved so far.<br /><br />What has this thread really accomplished? I don't know about anoyone else but it has shown me that it does not matter what is said, a person is only going to believe what they believe, and if some want to believe in creationism, let them. No one is getting hurt by it. It just needs to stay within its realm, which is church. Leave the science to school, and the faith to church....
 

Ralph 123

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

Discussion, debate, etc are healthy and valuable. It does not have to change a single mind to be of value to many.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

JasonJ, What happens when "faith" becomes truth? Will it then still be only allowed in church. Why if anything has to do with God must it be separate from "science" If its about seperation of church and state then it is really about politics and quite frankly politics rarely are about what is out in the open for Discussion. this is about one sceintific believe against another so bringing politics into it just takes the focus off of what we are discussing.As for what it accomplishes.......It helps all of us who wish to learn more about our fellow man to grow as people also maybe through this discussion it has forced many of us to consider why we believe what we do. I for one welcome debates such as this.
 

JasonJ

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

M&R, I am open to anything that happens. As it stands, I am not religious, nor do I believe in God. I do, however, acknowledge that there could be a God, I just have not seen anything to prove it. I am not sure what that says about me. I live my life to a high moral standard, much like those who are of faith, I just do it because I feel it is the right way a person functions in society, and because that is how I was raised. I just don't need guidance by a program of faith and religion. That doesn't mean I have it against religion, I think it is helpful for a lot of people to find the answers they are looking for. We are all looking for answers, some find it in God, some find it in Scientific Journal. The education system exists to teach children what they need to function in society. It is hard enough to keep children focused, and to teach them what they need to know to function in day to day life. To then add more information, especially information that has no real tangible evidence for them to see and hold in their hands is a bad idea. It is one thing to say "teach 'em both", but it is another to actually implement it. Children are not spiritual like adults are. They may seem like it, but they are only emulating what their parents do. When a child says they believe in God, they are not feeling the belief, the faith, like an adult does (there are exceptions of course). They are telling their parants what they think the parents want to hear, or at least they don't have a full comprehension of God. They are not wired for it yet. They do, however, understand what they see in front of them. Evolution may be imperfect, may not be 100% proven, but for a classroom full of children, it is much easier to relate to and understand than being told a diety waved his hand and all was created. In a way, it is actually a diservice to our children to even ask them to believe such a simplistic viewpoint. Its almost lazy in a way. Teaching creationism in school will only confuse them, and give them the opportunity to take the easy way out. Why should a child study and learn about the intricacies of evolution when they can just say "God made everything". I stand by my belief that creationism should stay in church for those of faith, and let evolution be taught in school. It is less confusing for the children, keeping it seperate. They can process the information and decide what they believe as they grow older.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

Now how can you say that taking the time to think that through and express it is not valuable? I think it accomplished a lot<br /><br />You should have more faith in the "children" they are smart thinking human beings and should hear all sides and decide for them selves. That's called education. To give one theory and ignore the rest is called indoctrination.<br /><br />The only time people see to care is when they are the ones being left out.<br /><br />Fight for freedom and full disclosure of all information. Let people decide evry issue for them selves.
 

JasonJ

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

I agree it is valuable to discuss these sort of things, as long as it doesn't turn in to a hate fest. This definatley killed the Suds post, thats for sure... :D
 

JasonJ

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

All I am saying is keep it simple. Let it be taught in church or by the family. School isn't the place for it. You are right, kids are smart. Kids are not as smart as adults however, and it is the job of the education system to prepare them for life. It is the job of the church to prepare them for faith.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

There is no harm in explaing the views about how life started. There is great harm in picking any one and teaching that alone. Indoctrination is indoctrination. Life isn't simple so why simplfy complex topics? Give people all the information in an unbiased fashion and let hem decide for them selves which they think is right. It is called freedom.
 

18rabbit

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

The bible is one of the most accurate accounts of history
I doubt it. It is neither accurate nor complete, and it could definitely use an updating to 21st century language…but from what source? Probably shouldn’t be allowed in public schools either…until we clear up a few things. And it is amazingly thin on the lives of two subjects; the life of Jesus, and my personal favorite, Eighteen Rabbit.<br /><br />A text that is thought to be accurate for life in Jesus’ time is a book available under the title “The Twelve Caesars.” Chavez is not one of them. It is a historical account of the Caesars with insight into Roman life that was written by Suetonious, a Jewish civil servant with access to the immense collection of records the Roman’s maintained, a few years (60?) after the crucifixion.<br /><br />Any serious consideration of Biblical accuracy has to also include consideration of other sources; specifically, the writings in the custody of the Catholics, the Buddhists, and the Mormons, even the Koran, and don’t overlook the research done by the Seventh Day Adventist. The SDA has cleared up huge misunderstanding about Biblical accuracy.<br /><br />More recently, very old writings on the life of Christ are starting to re-surface from, of all places, the dark and musty halls of ancient Buddhist monasteries in Asia. They have maintained written records of Jesus, son of Mary and Joseph, they claim go back to his time. This always causes a lot of problems. The writings are said to document aspects of Jesus’ life that are omitted from the Bible. Stuff like linage, childhood, ministry, miracles, and his marriage and his children…not something most Christian religions are willing to accept, but neither has any of them offered any solid reasoning to reject it. I don’t see how the Bible can be an accurate historical text with these omissions. I can’t wait to read the Buddhist’s documents. I’m going to write a script for Mel. <br /><br />Old Testament, New Testament, Suetonious, Mormon books, Buddhist documents, Catholic scripture, Mel’s movie … they all dovetail for a more accurate historical accounting. The Bible is not wholly accurate by itself. None fully explain Eighteen Rabbit. Each appears to fill the gaps of omission from the others.<br /><br />The Bible is absolutely wonderful reading. It has had a tremendous global influence. But so has Darwin’s theory. Both have suffered from inaccuracy that has been ignored. Neither has yet to be completely substantiated.<br /><br />The Bible is only as accurate as your faith. Again, we’re back to that same place…it’s not about what you choose to believe, it is about what you choose to ignore.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

Ok as for those who wrote the bible being just men so able to make mistakes there are many things that only through divine knowledge could the authors have known here are a few exsample I have found. The bible was correct many times when the common man was wrong.<br /><br />(1) The fact that the earth is spherical. Some seven centuries b.c. the Hebrew prophet Isaiah wrote:<br /><br />Isa 40:22a (NIV) "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth…"<br /><br />While common man held the earth to be basically flat, until the introduction of the compass and the fifteenth-century voyages of Columbus and Magellan.<br /><br />(2) The fact that the earth is suspended in space.<br /><br /> The book of Job is thought to be one of the oldest in the Bible, written perhaps earlier than 1500 b.c. At this time one of the most advanced "scientific" theories concerning the earth was that our planet was flat and rested securely upon the back of a gigantic turtle who was slowly plodding through a cosmic sea of some sort. But note the refreshing (and accurate) words of Job: <br /><br />Job 26:7 (NIV) "He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing."<br /><br />All this was not known by the scientists of the world until the writings of Sir Isaac Newton in a.d. 1687. How did Job know this? Only one way by supernatural revelation from God.<br /><br />(3) The fact that the stars are innumerable. <br /><br />Nearly twenty centuries b.c., God spoke to Abraham one night and said<br /><br />"Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if you are able to number them: and he said to him, So shall be your children" (Gen. 15:5). <br /><br />Abraham must have at first wondered about this. God was promising him to be the founder of a nation whose descendants would be as uncountable as the stars. But Abraham could have counted the stars. To the visible naked eye there are a little under 1,200! But, what about the scientific opinion of that day? As late as a.d. 150 the famous astronomer Ptolemy dogmatically declared the number of the stars to be exactly 1056. How wrong they were, how right God's Word was!<br /><br />(4) The fact that all living things are reproduced after their own kind. -Gen 1:25 <br /><br />(NIV) "God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good."<br /><br /> For hundreds of years scientists followed the spontaneous generation theory of Aristotle (350 b.c.). They believed eggs of all lower animals (insects, etc.) were formed out of rotting substance. Frogs and other small sea life, they thought, had their origin in slime pools. In fact, it was not until 1862, that Louis Pasteur proved once for all, that there was no such thing as spontaneous generation. Then, in 1865, a monk named Johann Mendel demonstrated even more forcibly the rigid laws of heredity. But one could have learned all this, in reading the first few chapters of the Bible. How could Moses know these things? Simple, God told him!<br /><br />18rabbit I challenge you to find one proven inaccurate fact in the Bible, because if you can I can assure you will be known world wide because 1000s of people have tried to disprove the Bible over and over and many have come to believe in it, because they were unable to do what they set out to do.
 

18rabbit

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

M&A - The last word on this is yours. Thank you.
 
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Re: creation science vs. evolution

It is critically important to realize that the Bible has been transcribed throughout time, and that interpretations of its meaning have been incorporated seamlessly. I am not an expert on theology, I do not know the bible in any version, ancient or modern, sufficiently well to have even amateur status. That said, this I do know, it is a book that has been evolving (ironic eh?) for thousands of years.<br /><br />It is a book.<br /><br />it is good book<br /><br />but it is just a book<br /><br />Perhaps I am naive, but I like to think that the Bible speaks more to the tenacity of humans to embrace the idea of something far greater than themselves, to commit themselves, to simply believe.<br />Tiny specks on a spinning rock endlessly hurtling around a dwarf star, lost amongst the trillions of stars in a universe so vast that it takes light millions of years to reach us from the more distant stars. We laugh, we love, we die, and yet we dare to dream of God.<br /><br /> :)
 

redog

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

I just have some questions about religion. <br />1. If God created all things then rested on the 7th day (Saturday) then why do most christians worship and rest on the first day of the week. (Sunday)?<br />2.If Saturday is the Sabath and Sunday was the day the pagans worshipped the Sun why do we still do it?<br />3. The bible says that there shall be no images of God displayed. It also says that Jesus and God are one and the same. Why is there images of Jesus in churches?
 

JoeW

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Re: creation science vs. evolution

Will this thread not die? If you read through the posts from the beginning, you'll see that the same type of statements are being made and the same type of questions are being asked. How long does this thread need to go before we all realize that there will be no end to this controversy. We each belive what we choose to believe. <br /><br />I have just one question for you all...Can anyone honestly say that their mind has been changed by this discussion?
 
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