creation science vs. evolution

[SCO]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Ralph, I agree with you in your post about anti religion, but it's a balancing act. We need our morality to , as individuals, do the right thing so that we can self police our freedom. Religion is a good thing. On the other hand, do you and others on this board propose that we become a Christian State government, and if not then why not given your willingness to include a particular religions belief as part of state sponsored education?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Let it all hang out. Let people decide for themselves. Let's not fear the 10 commandments in a lobby. Let's not fear "under God" in the pledge. Let's not fear evolution. Let's let it all be acceptable and let's be tolerant and allow people to decide for themselves. As soon as some of us decide for others, we are no longer free.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

All im saying SCO is it takes as much faith in evolution as it does in creation. Evolution is not proven so when we present it in our schools as correct and anything else foolish is is doing the same thing that religious people have done for years and years, push their veiws on people and surpress all others. Why is it ok to silence a group because it is religion? how is that ok but dont ever talk against gays or aithists sp.? Why is an unproven theory pushed on our Kids as if it was the for sure thing. It was in my schools. When a teacher makes it seem creation is a foolish thing what do you think kids will think. If it was able to be proven as fact(evolution) it would open up all kinds of attacks on the bible but in however many years this theory has been around it has never moved from being just a theory.hmmmmm. teach it as a theory but let it be known it is not the only one.

 

[SCO]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

I think the 10 commandments should be in the lobby. I would agree with everything else, but how long is it going to take o teach every kid the science version and all the other religions in the world. Science is the distilled version of the general consensus of how it all works. You say it is a liberal agenda, I say baloney. There are people that believe in perpetual motion machines, they dont teach that, nor the views of the flat earth society, or that we never went to the moon. <br />I have the same conservative view that you all do, that this country and world is going to H in a handbasket and fast. There's not much we can do about it but if becoming a church state will work, then I am all for it. We wont have what we had before though. Teach away.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

howdy Ralph, good to see you posting again <br />I totally agree with your statements re: being<br />tolerant. would make this world a much better <br />place IMHO.<br />have to disagree with teaching creation science<br />in our public schools though.<br />1) creation is not science<br />2) separation of church/state<br />3) no group should be able to push ANY <br /> cirriculum on our schools.<br /><br />as I posted very early in this thread, there is<br />a group of people that believe that aliens were<br />the creators and responsible for intellegent design.<br />do we teach this to kids also?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

no group should be able to push ANY <br />cirriculum on our schools.<br />

That is exactly what excluding it is, one group pushing its beliefs on others. Don't fear the info and debate MY - let people decide for themselves which one they believe in. Secularism is as much a religion as Christianity or Judaism.<br /><br />BTW, there is no such thing as separation of church and state, just a prohibition on a state sponsored religion.

 

[SCO]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

M&R, Ive been going to Baptist churches all my life, and do you think I have even one time expressed an opinion about evolution? I have not. Discrimination and ridicule goes both ways. I dont for one second believe in suppression of creationism, I just dont think it is a mainstream science that has passed the muster of critical review. If evolution is deemed by general consensus to be bogus, then it should not be taught. The bigger issue here is whether there is such a thing that is science that should be taught to all our kids. What defines science that can and should be taught. What can we agree on? Obviously, without science, we revert to the dark ages. To attack evolution, I think resort to attacking science in general. I think science is a search for the truth. No agenda, just the facts please.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Originally posted by Ralph:<br />If you want to see the results of this trend just look at the former USSR and modern day Europe for guidance. I think it is telling that one of the first things the former Soviet Republics did when they were free of oppression is to embrace their religious roots. Why is that when after all those years they did without it and even became a Super Power?

Good point Ralph. I'll go one further and pose your question in reverse. Why did the Soviet Union cast out and demonize everything religious in the first place? Furthermore I don't think that you have to look to the old Soviet Union to find a example of a society that cast out their religous (Christian) underpinnings. Look at the escalating consequences of it slowly being cast out here. Creation vs evolution is just the tip of the iceberg.<br /><br />If you want to get a good handle on what is happening here re this nation's Christianity, do some research on The Frankfurt School and it's Critical Theory. It is chilling. Many here, with their anti religious position, are unwittingly playing into the hands of this program.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

I think the 10 commandments should be in the lobby. I would agree with everything else, but how long is it going to take o teach every kid the science version and all the other religions in the world.

About a day.<br /><br />

There are people that believe in perpetual motion machines, they don't teach that, nor the views of the flat earth society, or that we never went to the moon. <br />

I wouldn't put belief in God in the same category as a belief in a flat Earth. We have irrefutable evidence the Earth is round and I haven't seen anything that irrefutably proves there is no God and the Bible is a work of fiction.

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

it is amusing to me that creationists disregard<br />evolution due to lack of "proof", yet their theory<br />of the earth being 6,000 yrs. old has absolutely<br />no proof or scientic basis whatsoever.<br />

MY, some creationists think its ok to kill all christians, as they are heretics to their religion too... i wish you would not lump all creationists into one view <br /><br />i believe in creation. i have never put a timeline on the events, nor have i been to a religious gathering where it was said to be 6000 yrs. the bible was quoted and you take it from there. if any further explanations were given, it was prefaced by 'my opinion of this is' or 'i believe this relates to'... <br /><br />be nice, and use " some creationists believe"

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Whoa there SCO did you say if the magority (genaral concensus)decides evolution is not fact it shoulnt be taught(or some variation of that). Im sure there will be plenty of people on this sight who would disagree with you. What if the magority disagrees with allowing gay marrage? or the magority wants the courthouse to have the 10 comandments on the wall.Truth be told I think it should be the magority rules, but time and time again we are reminded that it is not about the magority.....just the loudest.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

as JB stated, the bible is a valuable historical<br />reference and I would have no problems seeing it<br />used in history class. it is however, not a science<br />book.<br />how can you possibly want to teach a rediculous,<br />non-scientific theory that has not an ounce of<br />scientific support in science class?<br />heck, I would even be in favor of teaching kids<br />about all the worlds religions in a "religion"<br />class.<br />with over 150 posts, I have yet to hear rashionable<br />scientific proof behind creation science. if there<br />were some relevant scientific facts, then it would<br />be a different story.<br />it is not now and has never been science!<br />sorry, wrong classroom folks...

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

MY there is no "scientific" proof of evolution either. I propose we still teach the evolution thing in school but make it clear its an unproven theory..........it takes as much or more faith to believe in it as it is, to believe there is a higher power that was involved. Just my opinion.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

forgive me ebb... should have said "creation<br />scientists"<br />I believe in creation also

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

What are you afraid of MY? If it is that obvious to you it will be equally obvious to the students too.

 

[SCO]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

M&R, I am just talking about what is taught, some selection of what goes into a science book or curriculum must be made. If evolution is not credible, throw it out. The believers in it can still write their books and propose theorize all they want, but if it is not considered credible then leave it out of the official curriculum to teach something that is. The general concensus is the general concensus of "learned scientists" in that field. All bets are off if the scientists have an agenda. We part company here, because I don't think scientists have an agenda. For Christian scientists though, acceptance of evolution is an unbearable thought by my perception. Big agenda.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

M&R, there is a ton of scientific evidence that<br />leads to the conclusion that evolution is a<br />strong scientific theory deserving study.<br />kinda hard to prove what happened billions or<br />millions of years ago. it can most certainly be<br />proved that the earth is more than 6,000yrs old<br />though by several meathods.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Credibility is determined by the number of people who believe in its truth. Whenever you have theories believed by many people, it should all be presented, warts and all, and let people decide for themselves. When a theory loses credibility (very few believers) then it can be dropped or footnoted.<br /><br />Don't fear the info and debate.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

Ralph, I am afraid when some sect of society can<br />muscle our schools into adopting unfounded info.<br />into their cirriculum.<br />it's like the emporer's new clothes...

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: creation science vs. evolution

In this case MY, you happen to be talking about the majority of your fellow citizens. The secularists muscled in the teaching of evolution (remember the Scope's trial). Nothing wrong with advocating a broad curriculum when there is a dispute and allowing all the information to be presented, discussed and debated. Don;t fear it brother. It is good for humanity and freedom.