Cushion Parts & Assembly

[l008com]

After reading around the forum, I've decided that I don't want to do my own vynil work, making new bow seats & cushions. But I think I'm fully capable of making my own bases, cutting the foam, installing the hardware, and stuff like that. Then I can just bring them somewhere to get the vinyl done.

Which leads me to some questions!

1) I have a bunch of foam I picked up at some home goods type store a few years ago. I used it to pack a disassembled mountain bike into a square box. It's about 2" thick. Is that fine to use? Or let me ask this question a different way: do you use some kind of special 'marine' foam for boat seats, or do you just use regular foam? If it is special, where can I get it? I do need a small sheet of some thinner foam for the kick panels even if my main foam is good. And I might want to do some sandwiching, with a firmer foam base, and softer foam on top. The bow seats on my boat have never been truly comfortable, but I'd like to change that.

2) What do you call/where do you get the screws to mount cushions to fiberglass? I think the original ones had some weird setup, where they would stick into the front of the wood, before you wrapped then. Then the threaded part would stick out the back, which were lined up with the holes in the fiberglass. I'll need a few of those for some of these cushions.

3) I was thinking I'd prime the wood after cutting, before any building, just to give them an extra layer of protection. Good idea?

4) Should I glue the foam to the wood? If I'm using multiple layers of foam, should I glue them together? I would imagine the vinyl seat cover will do a pretty good job of keeping the foam in place, but maybe glue would be good too? If so, what kind of glue would I use?

5) The last two pieces I'm going to make, are on a curve. My suggestion to someone else in another thread, was to sandwich three layers of 1/4" plywood and glue them together in a curve, to make a 3/4" curved piece of plywood. It seemed logical, but all I have is 3/4" (it might even be 1", it looked thick). Is there some other trick to softening up the wood so I can bend it? I plan to try to build some sort of rig that I can sit the pieces in to bend them to the right curve, but this stuff looks like it would just splinter away if I tried bending it like that. It might get softer if I soaked it in water, but wood and water and boats are a bad combo.

That's all I can think of for now, I'm sure there will be more questions before I'm finished

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

After reading around the forum, I've decided that I don't want to do my own vynil work, making new bow seats & cushions. But I think I'm fully capable of making my own bases, cutting the foam, installing the hardware, and stuff like that. Then I can just bring them somewhere to get the vinyl done.

Which leads me to some questions!

1) I have a bunch of foam I picked up at some home goods type store a few years ago. I used it to pack a disassembled mountain bike into a square box. It's about 2" thick. Is that fine to use? Or let me ask this question a different way: do you use some kind of special 'marine' foam for boat seats, or do you just use regular foam? If it is special, where can I get it? I do need a small sheet of some thinner foam for the kick panels even if my main foam is good. And I might want to do some sandwiching, with a firmer foam base, and softer foam on top. The bow seats on my boat have never been truly comfortable, but I'd like to change that.

Answer: No special foam needed. I used a "Donor Couch" for my foam. Having said that, If you want a firmer feel when sitting then you will have to purchase High Density foam which is a bit pricey. Hint: An electric carving knife is the tool of choice when cutting a shaping the foam to size.


2) What do you call/where do you get the screws to mount cushions to fiberglass? I think the original ones had some weird setup, where they would stick into the front of the wood, before you wrapped then. Then the threaded part would stick out the back, which were lined up with the holes in the fiberglass. I'll need a few of those for some of these cushions.

Answer: Many was to mount your Bow seats. Velcro, Pine Tree Fasteners, Snaps, Rare Earth Magnets T-nuts and Stainless Bolts. Your choice.

3) I was thinking I'd prime the wood after cutting, before any building, just to give them an extra layer of protection. Good idea?

Answer: Yes, but use epoxy. Two coats.

4) Should I glue the foam to the wood? If I'm using multiple layers of foam, should I glue them together? I would imagine the vinyl seat cover will do a pretty good job of keeping the foam in place, but maybe glue would be good too? If so, what kind of glue would I use\?

Answer: I would just cut the foam to shape and let the upholsterer take care of the glue up.


5) The last two pieces I'm going to make, are on a curve. My suggestion to someone else in another thread, was to sandwich three layers of 1/4" plywood and glue them together in a curve, to make a 3/4" curved piece of plywood. It seemed logical, but all I have is 3/4" (it might even be 1", it looked thick). Is there some other trick to softening up the wood so I can bend it? I plan to try to build some sort of rig that I can sit the pieces in to bend them to the right curve, but this stuff looks like it would just splinter away if I tried bending it like that. It might get softer if I soaked it in water, but wood and water and boats are a bad combo.

Answer: You can TRY to pour a lot of boiling water on both sides and lay it between two saw horses and lay a HEAVY weght on it and see if it will bend but I'm not optimistic. It will bend to some degree but not sure if it will be enough.

That's all I can think of for now, I'm sure there will be more questions before I'm finished

See my answers in blue above.

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

5) A little boiling water will probably work well. The curve is much more gradual than I remembered.

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

My 4x8 sheet of ply looks like it's going to be big enough for all of the parts I need, except for two.

So I'm thinking that I should take advantage of that, and leave out the two long strips.
Then I should do what I suggested in another thread, and buy a sheet of 4' x 4' x .25" plywood, and sandwich three layers together to get a nice curved 3/4" sheet. But the 4' x 4' wouldn't be marine grade, it would be regular $10 plywood from Lowes. Would I be able to get away with two non-marine grade backings if I paint or epoxy it?

Also Woodonglass what kind of epoxy were you talking about in your reply? Do you have a link?

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

So I talked to my "friend" and he said it would basically be around $1000, or close to it, to do all 11 pieces:
4 kick panels under the dash, new sewing.
3 seat cushions
2 very small back cushions
2 skinny side cushions
The longest dimension among all of these cushions is about 3 feet. Or to put it another way, these all came out of a single 4x8 sheet.
The main reason that prices seems high is that i've already cut all the backing wood. I sized up everything, cut everything, sanded it all down. And soon I will prime it all. So it's just wrapping it up.





But if that's a reasonable price to have that many seat cushions professionally upholstered, then I'm definitely interested in doing at least some of them myself again. At least the four kick panels, they'll have no seams or anything.

Sooooo, any useful links, how-to's, helpful videos etc regarding this?
As soon as I hit post, I'm going to search around youtube.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

You do not have to use marine grade plywood. Ext. Grade plywood has 100% waterproof glue but some voids in the laminates. This is not that critical for seat backs. 3:1 Epoxy from uscomposites.com is what I use and recommend. A used heavy duty sewing machine from Craigslist for less than $100 bucks and some You Tube videos and you should be able to do a respectable job.

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

I ended up getting the marine grade plywood for about the cost of regular plywood. One small shape had been cut out but otherwise it was in great shape. I made quick work of it too

I'll check out that epoxy. Also didn't have enough wood (and I don't know what the final shape will be until I install the 2 remaining speakers) for the side pieces so I'll probably be using regular plywood for that, good to know it won't be a problem.

I'm going to pass on the sewing. I should be able to do everything with just wrapping and stapling, except the three *** cushions. So if I have to pay to get them done, and I can whip out the rest myself, that will be good.

Is there any particular kind of glue I can use? I know it's been said that glueing isn't necessary, but I'd feel better if I could glue everything together as I staple. Something I could either brush on or spray on. So I could glue padding to the board, then padding layer 2 to padding layer 2, then glue the vinyl to the padding and wood before stapling. Then glue in any folded seams. Then if I do buttons in the middle of the cushions, I'll want to glue around those too. If nothing else, to increase water resistance.

Oh and one more thing, drilling holes in the wood so air can escape, do you really need to do this? How big to the holes have to be? Does this need to be one on all cushions? This seems like it would be a great way for water to get in on all but the three *** cushions?

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

Any rubber cement-like spray adhesive (3M 77 or 90) will glue foam to wood and poly batting to foam. And you will want some nice thick batting or your upholstery job will not look properly "filled out." You do not want to glue the vinyl to the foam, you need it to "glide" over the batting/foam when you sit and to be able to move and stretch while you staple.

Some advocate trying to seal moisture out of the foam by putting plastic sheeting / bagging between the vinyl and the foam. That never works, it just acts like a whoopie cushion when you sit, then gets pinholes and then traps moisture into the foam. And drilling holes in the wood is just gonna let moisture in and collect at the bottom of the foam.

When I made my cushions, I used a strip of this vinyl-coated polyester mesh on the bottom edge (and for the whole bottom of the bow seat cushions) to let air (and any water trapped in the foam) release:
http://www.yourautotrim.com/marun.html

The mesh sticks with HH-66 vinyl cement and sews up just like any marine vinyl. Have had no issues with waterlogged cushions in the entire year since I made them. And it's tough stuff, too.

I'll post some pics if you need.

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

Oh yes the more pics the better :-D

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

You DO want to wrap your foam in plastic. It is NOT to keep water out, it IS to stop the vinyl from abrading the foam and causing it to break down. Glue the foam to the wood but NOT the vinyl to the foam. Trying to glue your Vinyl seams together will not be a good idea and will not last very long. I do not think you will be happy with the look of the end results.

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

Poly batting will prevent the backside of the vinyl from abrading the foam better than will a plastic sheet, because the thin plastic is itself going to abrade away in a short time; plus batting will "fill out" the cushion and will not trap water into the foam like plastic will. Manufacturers use plastic sheet instead of batting because batting costs a bit more, but in my experience batting is the way to go for long-term success.

Something like HH-66 vinyl cement can be used to glue seams together in vinyl, and even to glue welting into place between faces, but IMO only as a way of holding them together until they are sewn.

Oh, and of course be sure to use stainless or Monel staples!

Here's some year-old photos; cushions and coaming pads in various states of finish.

Epoxy-coated outdoor ply with foam and batting glued down:

Front-side top and rear-side bottom views of a finished coaming pad, showing the mesh on the bottom edge that lets water drain out of the foam (that mesh is not visible when the pads are in the boat):

Top and bottom of an open-bow seat cushion, showing the mesh making up the bottom of the upholstery:

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

(Continued, could not add more photos to previous post)

I can't believe I could not find more close-ups on the finished interior in my files, but here you can see some part of the finished pads and seats installed:

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

My Fishing seats were covered with plastic. They were 40 years old. When I removed the covers the plastics was as good as the day it was put on. My back to back seats were original. 50 yrs old. The Lonestar factory use Toilet Tissue plastic wrappers to cover the foam (yes I'm sure it was factory) and the plastic was still 100% intact. Poly Batting IS good stuff but added costs. Either will work but again something needs to be used to aide in abrasion resistance. I used a 1 1/2" webbing open frame design on my seats to allow total air circulation on the under side.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=524995&highlight=bench+seat

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

So for this plastic that I either should, or should not use, what kind of plastic are we talking about? Just a trash bag cut in half? Like maybe a few staples to hold it in place, then more staples once i'm stapling the vinyl? Meaning the vinyl staples would also go through the plastic bag?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

Like I said, My FACTORY seats used toilet paper plastic wrappers. I used WalMart bags. Trash bags would work to.

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

I don't know what you mean by toilet paper plastic wrappers? My TP doesn't come with wrappers? But no matter, if trash bags will work, then trash bags it is. They are cheap and I have plenty of them.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

Soo... when you go to the store and buy toilet paper it isn't in a plastic wrapper from the factory. Mine is!!!! That's what the factory used. Check it out....

 

[BansheeVision]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

I recently redid the wood cockpit seat structures in a 84' Regal. They used plastic wrap that appeared like something just a bit thicker than dry cleaner garment wrap(like what you get your clothes back in). I used 1/2" exterior plywood, titebond III glue, plated toothed T-anchors, plated bolts, air-nailer staples and brads. Painted the assemblies with leftover exterior house paint. Total cost for 25' boat cockpit seat structures - $100. The seats were 28 years old, I'm sure these will last another 20, and am quite sure I won't still have the boat then.

The seats are now at the upholstery guys shop - I'll let him make the call if they should be plastic wrapped. He also explained that the only difference in upholstery foam is the density(ratio of chemical mix). The firmer the foam the more expensive it is(more chemical X in the soup I guess). I am also letting him shape the foam, partly because some of the seats have winged cushions, but mostly to allow him the freedom to do it his way.

To warp your plywood you may be able to use the original seat structure as a form. Rough-out (oversized) your structures in 1/4 plywood, pour some hot/boiling water on them, clamp them to your form and let dry(one at a time). After you have enough shaped laminates, stick them together and finish trimming out your desired shape. If you wanted to go hard core you could mockup a steam box.

 

[l008com]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

So I'm finally getting back into the seat project after putting it on hold to finish the floor. Plus a month of boating while doing no work

So, is there someplace online where I can buy foam and vinyl?

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: Cushion Parts & Assembly

i bought most of my seating supplies from Ebay...there was a store on there called "the foam guys"...and some fabric stores usually has a small selection of marine grade vinyl.
the seats are not difficult to do, if that's all the seating you will be doing, then the base model sewing machine that the bix box stores carry will probably work fine for you.
I have some pictures and videos posting on my "how to" thread in my signature