Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

[stevens]

Hi guys,<br /><br />There are some diesel/fuel additives (i.e. Soltron, Startron, XBee) that claim to have an enzyme-content that works miracles on the fuel in the holding tanks. Benefits claimed include more efficient fuel burn, less fuel consumption, getting rid of water in the fuel, preventing/dissolving diesel bugs /sludge / deposits, etc.<br /><br />Here's a link to a homepage, where there is also available a copy of an actual print ad:<br /> http://www.starbrite.com/sproductdetail.cfm?ID=1538 <br /><br />Call me gullible, but I bought some Startron last week (US$40 for a 650 ml bottle) and poured some of it in my diesel tank. Not because there was anything wrong, I just thought it couldn't hurt, and the allure of the advertising was too much to resist...<br /><br />Now, it smelled like ordinary diesel, and looked like ordinary diesel dyed blue. If it is, somebody is making a financial killing!<br /><br />After two weeks of use, I can tell no difference whatsoever in the way the engine runs, sounds or behaves.<br /><br />The topic of fuel additives has sparked some heated debate at some of the other boating forums; over efficacy, between rival brands, and apparently also with some copy-cat brands.<br /><br />The homepages of these brands were of little help; i.e. lots of promises and testimonials, but little in terms of scientific support. Someone in one of these discussions called this "homeopathy for boat engines".<br /><br />My questions to you fellow boaters then become:<br />Does this stuff really work as claimed? Have you found any reliable testing to support this, other than user testimonials? Is it recommended to use, or simply a harmless waste of money?

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Probably the only benefit is the bugs and algae stuff which is something that really can be an issue with diesel that sits.<br /><br />I went to that site and the one that really struck me was the 15% fuel "economy" improvement. First, economy would include the price of that stuff, so real efficiency improvements would have to be higher. They would make big big heads turn if they could improve efficiency in a diesel by even 2% and I'll guarantee you they can't do that. Think about it this way, to gain 15% in efficiency they would have to get the same power output with 15% less fuel. So, if your diesel fuel injector injected the same quantity of fuel that it does now, you should theoretically get 15% more power. Not gonna happen.<br /><br />I also don't believe the emissions claims or anything else about hydrocarbon alignment etc. I would ask the guys at your local fuel dock what they reccommend for bugs and algae. If anybody ever claims they can increase power or efficiency in a diesel with anything; hardware or "mouse milk" ask for the SAE type 3 fuel test. They won't have it and then you can walk, because it doesn't work.<br /><br />Decent diesel engines run at about 38% thermal efficiency, somne higher some lower. Bascially, that means that if you put in 1000 btu's of fuel you will get out about 380 btu's converted to rotary (shaft) power. It is that simple. More fuel = more power. When you add anything to your tank with less btu content than diesel, power and efficiency go DOWN.

 

[stevens]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Thanks for the response, Quietcat. It makes sense, and if this stuff is only/mostly diesel anyway, it probably won't hurt in terms of efficiency.<br /><br />Why aren't there more opinions forthcoming on this? Is there potentially too much controversy around this? Or, is it simply too obvious that this stuff is only to fool gullible buyers like myself?<br /><br />If these additives really do not work, and there is no real evidence in support of the claims, why aren't they being sued for false advertising? At least in the UK, the Advertising Standards Authority is usually on the alert, provided somebody tips them off.<br /><br />What about the US, can manufacturers really get away with unsupported claims like this? I thought the US had more lawyers per capita than anywhere else, and there must be some lawyers who own boats as well?

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

I think the lack of opinions is because there are very few small diesel boats in the US, so this crowd is more Petrol savvy. Anyway, who knows why they keep getting away with it. There may be enough wiggle room in the wording, or it just isn't worth the expense to prosecute these small players.<br /><br />You're right about the efficieny as there is not enough mixed in to make any real percentage difference. You could mix in dirty lube oil at those quantities and probably not hurt or change anything.

 

[3388sam]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Our boat is going on 10yrs old and has over 2700 hrs on it. Other than Bio additives (kill the bug) we never have added anything else.<br />Engines still rev up 2800 rpm with no smoking problems! IMHO if you keep the maintenance up and have clean fuel, they will keep running like new.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

I have an additive for diesel engines that has increased fuel economy by 15-18% consistantly, and is 100%, money back if it doesn't do what it says...<br />A trucking firm in Kansas City used it for 3 months (57 trucks) and the report back was 19% better economy, and they were given the additive...they didn't have to pay for it.<br />Now they order it by the pallet.

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

walleyehed,<br /><br />No disrespect, but . . . I don't beleive it, and this is what I do for a living. Can you give me info on the product? If what you say is true every diesel engine in the world will soon be using it. In some parts of the world trucks use $100,000 or more in fuel annually. These savings would make a truck payment . . .

 

[cuzner]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Damn thats expensive!!!! I,ve owned and been driving diesel trucks for 20 years.I,ve never heard of algae growing in diesel before though.Yes it is a good idea to use conditioner, it realy does help your injectors,and keeps the sludge from building in your tank.Thats probably how they can claim to save so much fuel... worst case senario, patialy clogged injectors = poor perfomance, unburned fuel out the exhaust= poor fuel ecomomy, and black exhaust full of all kinds of nastiness.A good diesel fuel conditioner, with injector cleaner will do a good job at this, available anywhere and won't cost nearly what you paid. Sounds like another case of someone putting a marine sticker on a product and 10x the price....<br /><br /><br /> Jim

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

No disrespect, but . . . I don't beleive it, and this is what I do for a living.

Yea, that's what this Fedex unit thought too...<br />That's a typical response, except for those fleets now using it...<br />I'm working on UPS and some other Fedex Hubs right now, as well as some bull haulers.<br />Our state dept. is going to try it in some 300 vehicles over a 4 month period this summer as well.<br />We're not allowed to post links, but I can give you my email addy and tell you what it is if you'd like to know....<br />Sometimes you have to think "outside the box"...<br />ktsander@st-tel.net

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Email on the way too- at $7.50 equivalent price per gallon for pump diesel here I'd sure like to get a few more MPG than I'm getting!<br /><br />Just an aside, there's a diesel/LPG combined conversion over here that apparently makes quite a difference to fuel consumption and power. It just meters LPG straight into the inlet manifold to improve burn efficiency. The engine remains unchanged.

 

[stevens]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

 

[stevens]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

The above quoted case history from Walleyehed is very representative of the many other testimonials that are listed at the sites of:<br /><br />solpower.com (the original enzyme fuel treatment?)<br />xbee.bz (same product for Europe?) <br />solpowerindia.net (an Indian rip-off?)<br />soltron.co.uk (a rival company using the same brand?)<br />starbrite.com (a private label produced by the original solpower?)<br />etc.<br /><br />The thing is, a user testimonial may or may not be true and believable. But, if the product truly delivers such benefits, this should be demonstrable and replicable in controlled tests by reputable third party institutes or the like.<br /><br />One would think that the manufacturers would welcome such third party verification and support, but I have found nothing of this sort published on the internet.<br /><br />I am leaning towards the conclusion that these claims are too good to be true, and that gullible fools like myself are being ripped off, buying what is essentially ordinary diesel dyed with some colour at many times the price.<br /><br />That probably has to remain the conclusion as long as the manufacturers are not providing any factual information or believable third party verification of the claimed benefits.<br /><br />I dislike being conned, and hope somebody will be able to prove me wrong on this one!

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Originally posted by Stevens:<br /> if the product truly delivers such benefits, this should be demonstrable and replicable in controlled tests by reputable third party institutes or the like.<br /><br />One would think that the manufacturers would welcome such third party verification and support, but I have found nothing of this sort published on the internet.<br />

Yeah, what he said . . .<br /><br />Walleyehed, I sent you a note last night. I do want to look into what you have found. However, I stick to the the basics of my original post. BTU's in, BHP out. We're dealing with laws of physics here. Another quick point. Diesel engine mnaufacturers are all struggling to come up with Euro 4 and EPA 2007 on-highway engines. It's not that they can't do it, it is that they can't do it efficiently. These guys are collectively spending Billions (with a "B") to recover the 3 - 8% they lost in fuel efficiency for the lower emissions.

 

[QC]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Nos4r2,<br /><br />Almost missed your note. That is how you reduce fuel costs. Replace some with a lower cost fuel. That is exactly the business I am in. Started a new Company in Leyland, spent half my life there over the last two years. Done now, off to conquer the Aussies now . . . <br /><br />Check this place out www.cleanairpower.co.uk<br /><br />That's us. We use Natural Gas in a similar way as the LPG guys do, but ours works on HGVs (that's Brit for heavy-duty truck for all us Yanks).

 

[stevens]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

I wish somebody from the manufacturer or retailers of Soltron/Startron would step forward on this discussion and defend their product. Makes me appreciate even more the great service levels of Tabman and NautiJohn.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

The product I listed has third party testing....32 million worth....<br />No one single product listed above can touch this, that's why it's different.<br />We just had a seminar in Denver, Co., yesterday, and I cannot begin to tell the differences in this product vs. EVERYTHING else...47 patents in the U.S. plus another 130 in the last 4 months in 132 countrys.<br />It's 100% gauranteed, nothing else will touch it, it WILL do what it says, we have loads of proof now, or you get 100% of your money back, no questions asked...this IS the one that breaks the rules....

 

[cuzner]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Hey walleyehed, whats the name of this stuff? Is it Fedex freight using it in their trucks?<br /><br /> thanks<br /> Jim

 

[stevens]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Yes, Walleyehed, please tell us what this is and if it is available in stores/online? Can you tell us anything about HOW it works?

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Fedex is doing some trials with it now, as well as several railroad companys and countless other "fleet" type operators...<br />It is not available in stores, but is, online..<br />It's called freedom fuel additive.<br />All Data used for public viewing is from 3rd party data validation, no biased manufacturer's views...<br />The maunufacturer is Polar Molecular Inc., but is only available through distributors.<br />Mecury Marine tested this in many I/O and inboard applications and found a 66% reduction in valve seat and valve face wear, with an ave. increase of 6% in fuel economy.<br />It was also tested in outboards both carbed and DFI 2-strokes and 4-strokes with NO negative affects, only positive results with the cleanest combustion chambers they've ever seen + the increase in fuel economy.<br />Oh yea, Public Electric and service in NJ uses this in their 5 million gallon tank which supplies their pratt&whitney and rollsroyce powerplants because they were part of the initial testing of the product and stuck with it.<br />We are not allowed to post links, but because this is an exclusive product, if you will email me at ktsander@st-tel.net I can tell you where to get it.<br /><br />EDIT: stevens, Soltron will not agree to a test comparison with polar molecular...Of ALL the additives that could be found and contacted over a period of 6 months, only 1 agreed to be compared and it's a Valvoline product and it didn't make the cut.<br />7 countrys have done extensive testing of this product......and the patents cover ALL compounds until 2022. It's now in use world-wide and has been estimated that less than 1% of the population is aware of it.

 

[stevens]

Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Walleyehed,<br /><br />thank you for the information. I had a look at the websites of Polar Molecular, Amway, Quixtar, ATSDR, etc.<br /><br />Freedom Fuel Additive is apparently an Amway product available at quixtar.com, and also under the name of Duralt. Like the other products mentioned in my first post, this one is also "substantially similar" to diesel, and seems to contain primarily diesel/distillates and some thinner.<br /><br />It is also used at very low concentrations. It claims the same type and magnitude of benefits as Soltron and the others, albeit in a more convincing and professional sounding manner.<br /><br />I don't know my organic chemistry well enough to be very definite about this one either. But, I have to admit it has the same kind of "snake oil" feel to it. No offense intended, and I would be happy if I was proven wrong on this.<br /><br />Now, I've already been had once, so I think I'll pass on this one until Mr. Quietcat here tells me it's OK