Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

walleyehed

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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Stevens, email me, and I will tell you how to get this and at no cost to you....a DVD will be with it.There is no way you can be "had" on this.<br />I have researched quietcats site, and the process this product went through last year, was why the EPA gave it it's blessing...one of the requirements which most don't understand, is the product must also DO as it claims it will.<br />It's the ONLY one that does, gauranteed.<br />shoot me an email....addy is in above post.
 

walleyehed

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6,767
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

It's an altecor product, provided to quixtar and the defunked amway. Polar molecular is under contract with the parent company
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
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Messages
799
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

OK, I will mail you, Walleyehed. I am willing to try anything that promises to deliver these kinds of benefits, and at these low concentrations, it probably won't hurt anything. I'll let you and everyone else know how it goes. Thank you for your help.
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Messages
799
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

By the way, I sent an e-mail to Starbrite/Startron and, to my surprise, actually received a response from a real person.<br /><br />I was given a few more anecdotes about how terrific the product is, and a promise that the third-party side-by-side testing existed and that they would dig some of it out and send it to me. <br /><br />We'll see how it goes, but the fact that a real person bothered to answer was more than I expected.
 

NOSLEEP

Commander
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Oct 30, 2002
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2,442
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Diesel engine manufactures recommend a product<br />by Stanadyne. I have used these products for years<br />to extend the life of the diesel fuel systems in<br />all diesels I have operated over the years.<br />Maybe worth a look.<br /><br /> http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/ppt_dfa.asp <br /><br />Marketing Bulletin #MB 2059, May 2003<br />GM Approval of Stanadyne Performance Formula®<br />“Information on Diesel Fuel Additives”, GM Bulletin # 03-06-04-017; March 13, 2003<br />General Motors has recently issued the above bulletin concerning the use of diesel fuel additives.<br />In this bulletin, GM recommends both Stanadyne and Racor diesel fuel additives for use in GM<br />diesel engines to help address the problems associated with water in fuel. The bulletin refers to<br />two different “technologies” to help remove water: Demulsification (a proven technology used by<br />Stanadyne and Racor); and Emulsification (adopted by many other brands, often using alcohol).<br />Both Stanadyne and Racor additives deal with water in fuel by demulsifying, or coalescing it<br />(making the water form larger droplets), which enable a Fuel Filter/Water Separator to more<br />effectively remove the water properly. GM is adamant that water should not reach the pump or<br />injectors in their diesel engines, especially the Duramax engine. Water can cause serious damage<br />to any diesel fuel system, including rust, excessive wear, microbial contamination etc.<br />However, IT SHOULD NOT BE INFERRED THAT THE STANADYNE AND RACOR<br />ADDITIVES ARE THE SAME OR EQUAL - THEY ARE NOT!<br />Information on the features and benefits of Stanadyne Performance Formula® and Racor<br />Conditioner Plus can be obtained from literature or various web sites.<br />Stanadyne Performance Formula® is a multi function, all season product. It is engineered and<br />designed to deal with any fuel related problems including * Cold weather waxing & pour point *<br />Cetane * Lubricity * Water (demulsifier & anti-freeze) * Cleaner * Corrosion Inhibitor * Anti-<br />Oxidant.<br />Racor Conditioner Plus+ states that it addresses fuel related problems such as, *Cetane *<br />Lubricity * Water (demulsifier) * Cleaner * Stabilizer * It does not address cold weather problems<br />or corrosion/oxidization.<br />For cold weather operation Racor suggests adding Racor Winter Plus+. A Racor user will have to<br />add and mix both Racor products in order to get benefits approaching Stanadyne Performance<br />Formula. Even then, the improvement to performance may not be the same, as the Racor product<br />has less active cetane improver than Stanadyne Performance Formula.<br />Summary:<br />Clearly, the most comprehensive, multi-function diesel fuel additive available is Stanadyne<br />Performance Formula. It is the only additive that addresses virtually any diesel fuel-related<br />problem with one product, and is the only one that is:<br />􀂃 Made by a fuel injection equipment manufacturer.<br />􀂃 Approved by several OEMs.<br />􀂃 Proven to perform best in independent testing.<br />For more information, or to request literature, please call Stanadyne Power Products Division,<br />1 800 842 2496, or visit our website at www.stanadyne.com
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Hi Stevens. Sorry I missed this thread when it was started. We have a Cat 3208T in our boat. Our first diesel…there is no going back.<br /> :) <br />I have done a lot of reading and studying about diesel fuel. For recreational boat use, additives really aren’t necessary. What is paramount is removing any water from the fuel. Modern fuel filters will remove any contaminants and water from the fuel. The trick is to have access to fuel that will not prematurely clog the filter, and to prevent the build up of sludge (the bi-product of algae) in the bottom of the fuel tank.<br /><br />Algae does not grow in diesel fuel itself, but rather the water that is in the fuel. Remove the water and you remove the potential for algae growth and sludge. Condensation that forms on the inside walls of a fuel tank is a common source of water. Keeping your fuel tank full limits the tank area that can form condensation.<br /><br />Diesel fuel does not deteriorate; it becomes contaminated from algae, but can be cleaned. I think a fuel polishing system is almost a must on a boat. Buy one for $1500 and up, or easily make your own for about 1/4 the price. I am also an advocate for a redundant fuel filtering system.<br /><br />Diesel fuel is made to a specification. Unless you buy fuel from a 3rd world country, you are getting fuel that is made to spec. Different users of diesel have different requirements. Power plants store massive qualities of fuel and thus create an opportunity for the development of contaminants. Ferryboats go thru a tank, several thousand gallons, within days, so the opportunity for contamination to develop isn’t there. In New York the fuel is filtered before pumping into a ferry, and the ferries won't turn off their engines for days or weeks. Same for some long-haulers, trucks that go long distances. However, the fueling station can be a source for acquiring contaminants (debris, algae, water). What you need to be looking at is specifically marine diesel applications...how to have clean fuel.<br /><br />I hooked up with a guy that did failure analysis for Caterpillar. His boat is a couple piers down from mine. What an eye-opener! Look in your engine’s manual…does it say to use a fuel additive? Probably not. That’s because your engine was designed to run on clean fuel alone. The manual for my engine has details for coolant additives if the engine is operated in a very narrow range of certain environmental conditions, but nothing about fuel additives. Your engine was designed to operate only on diesel fuel and anything you add to the fuel means something other than diesel is also going thru your engine. Remember, you never get something for nothing. That doesn’t mean an additive is necessarily harmful.<br /><br />As was mentioned above, there aren’t many small boats with diesels. There should be, but there just isn’t. Since there is no conflict with iboats’ forums I’m posting a recommendation for a different forum: www.boatdiesel.com That forum is marine diesel and only marine diesel, nothing else. The forums are broken down by manf and engine model. You can read the last 30-days of postings for free and I believe you can post queries for free, but it costs $25/year to join and get access to all of the postings. There is a ton of excellent info on marine diesels there. The folks that participate there have mega experience in the operation, repair, maintenance and modification of marine diesels. It is the best $25 I have spend on anything boat related.<br /><br />Fwiw, I do not use any fuel additives, just fuel polishing. I don’t see the need for it. Perhaps Kenny is onto something that I am not aware of.<br /><br /><br />Edit: as a suggestion, before you start dumping money into fuel additives, maybe get started on an oil analysis program. Every time you change oil, you send a couple ounces to a lab. Cost $15-$25, depending on the lab. Ok to send the oil sample in the mail in the US. They will give you a detailed breakdown of what is in that sample. From that they can tell you exactly how your engine is performing and if the wear and tear is normal. They can also tell you what, if anything, is going to fail BEFORE it fails. Diesel engines are highly engineered. The lab knows what metals are used for what parts internally, and they know what the normal part-per-billion should be for any metals in the oil. If an additive will in anyway help your engine, the lab can tell you.<br /><br />www.blackstone-labs.com
 

SeaJayacas

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
49
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Shoot, what's a mere 18%? I have a diesel fuel additive that will increase your performance by a full 30%. Send me your checks for $149.95 plus $8.95 for shipping plus additional local sales tax and I'll send you a year's supply of the stuff. Hurry, if you act now I will throw in a set of Ginsu knives absolutely free of charge.
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
799
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Since I am the gullible one around here - do those knives come with one of those knife blocks and cutting board too?<br /><br />Joking aside, this market must be huge since there are so many vendors selling their various additives. There must be many out there like me, wanting to pamper their engines to avoid the aggravation from potential engine malfunctions. <br /><br />Thank you for the long answer above, 18rabbit. This was very thoughtful.<br /><br />I know of oil analysis from industrial applications, but don't know if anyone over here would perform that kind of analysis for individuals. If one was skittish enough, one would probably want to test not only engine lube oil, but also outdrive oil, hydraulic oil, coolant, etc.<br /><br />Now, if Walleyehed can find a way to ship me some of his product, I would be happy to give it a try. It will be an entirely subjective and non-scientific test but worth a try nonetheless.<br /><br />Otherwise, I agree that I should probably just let this issue rest. If my engine gets annual servicing, proper winterizing and clean fuel, I'll most likely never encounter any problems. If I did run into any problems, I am still under the 5 year warranty and have a membership in a rescue service, so how bad could it be? :rolleyes: <br /><br />Anyway, thanks again.
 

walleyehed

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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Shoot, what's a mere 18%? I have a diesel fuel additive that will increase your performance by a full 30%. Send me your checks for $149.95 plus $8.95 for shipping plus additional local sales tax and I'll send you a year's supply of the stuff. Hurry, if you act now I will throw in a set of Ginsu knives absolutely free of charge.
There is not 1 cent changing hands here...you are a typical "Inside the box" thinker.<br /><br />18rabbit, you are missing the point...it's not what's IN your tank, it's what this does with the fuel as it goes through the combustion process, and you are VERY wrong when you say diesel fuel needs nothing...diesel is incredibly<br />Dirty in itself.<br />Since this am., I've talked with one of my group members that has a trucking firm in colorado operating 216 trucks...They have been using this product for 6 months, and told my partner on Friday, they have saved $640,000 in fuel costs in that 6 months based on what there milage was before and incorporated the rising cost of fuel to what it is now.<br />There are those that know, and those that think they know.<br />What is your experience level in testing THIS product????<br />As this forum is not the place to discuss this any farther, I will drop the argument.<br />Those that try it will win, those that don't will continue satisfied with paying higher prices for using more fuel..
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Ken and I have spoken off the forum about this and I await my sample. Until then I feel pretty much the same. Clean, waterless fuel is good and BTU's in bhp out. Somebody will crack something significant someday, but I submit these are the type of discoveries that get you into history books. Most of the hokey stuff talks about how they improve combustion, realign molecules etc. I am also not real excited about user testimony even though when a user says he likes my stuff I tell anybody who'll listen :D . What will get me excited is a certified test with a diesel engine in a certified test cell that is run under EXACTLY the same conditions on standard #2 diesel and then whatever the other concoction is. Compare the data and go from there. Nothing else can be trusted. Remember also, that you have to subtract the cost of the stuff from any savings. A 50% efficiency improvement doesn't mean anything if you pay 50% more for the fuel . . . ;) Sounds real basic, but it is amazing how many people miss it.<br /><br />I keep getting inquiries from guys that want us to commercialize an egine that runs on compressed air. Free, right? No, the cost of compressing that air is higher than the fuel costs to develop that same level of bhp with gasoline or diesel. Only makes sense if some other sucker is compressing the air for you.
 

18rabbit

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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Stevens – funny you should mention it…oil analysis IS recommended for your outdrive/marine tranny (I have a Twin-Disc tranny). And analysis of hydraulic fluid and coolant is also available for those that need it, but I doubt you do. I’m sure somewhere near you is a lab that does it. There’s a bunch of them in the US. It is a very common service for diesel engines. I get the impression your engine is newer…definitely get on an oil analysis program. The lab will track the history of your engine and the analysis becomes even more valuable. I’d go so far as to suggest using a lab in the US if you had to. Probably wouldn’t cost more than a couple bucks to send the oil sample to the US. But I think you have a lab local or close by in the EU. Try Google or ask anywhere diesel engines are sold or repaired in your area.<br /><br />Kenny – Let me help you here… modern fuel filters remove everything from diesel fuel that needs to be removed to get optimum performance from the engine. To suggest that some additive is in any way going to enhance that is, well, quite frankly, selling snake oil, i.e. it is an unnecessary expense. There is a little more to the storing and burning diesel fuel than just the filter, perhaps a careful re-reading of my posting above will be helpful to you.<br /><br />I’m sure whatever it is you have a vested interest in selling is good stuff, probably even cures tooth decay. All you need to do is get Caterpillar to issue a service bulletin that says your additive is needed in the fuel for my diesel engine. Shouldn’t be hard for you to do if it’s everything you claim it is.
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

18rabbit, that was your post number 2000! Congratulations!
 

walleyehed

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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

All you need to do is get Caterpillar to issue a service bulletin that says your additive is needed in the fuel for my diesel engine.
Ford motor co. has done it at this point.<br />So has Harley Davidson.<br />Pratt & Whitney is looking into specifying the use in their stationary powerplants, and 2 major fuel companys are looking into it as an additive package through the pump, and yes, in your case, it may fix your teeth.<br /> Beings you are the expert on this, 18rabbit (actually, quietcat is) why would an engine manufacturer tell you to run something that allows longer engine life and less work for them????? That was the EXACT response from Dodge after doing their testing, and yes, they verified a substantial increase, but won't recommend it to protect the service departments income as it is now.<br />Laugh, it bothers me not, as I know you have never been within miles of this product, and most likely won't be....that's ok, that's what makes the world go 'round.
 

walleyehed

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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

18rabbit, FOR YOUR INFO: I Just made a call to our contacts for who is testing what, and CAT, yes, CAT is testing this now for 30 days in 14 different fleet operators, and today was the 16th day and reported an ave of 1.2MPG INCREASE in fuel economy after the 15th day. we're talking a semi here so that's a fair shake...<br />Cat will be making a decision on recommendations by July 1st.<br />Someone may have spoke too soon?????
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 22, 2005
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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Kenny,<br /><br />Send me a name on the CAT contact on my email addy that you have. I may know him and would like to know a lot more if this is actually working out.<br /><br />Thanks
 

walleyehed

Admiral
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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Our rep from Denver came down last night for a quick meeting on this product and we discussed what Cat was doing and his info is that we will have written results from cat as soon as they have completed the 30 trial.<br />As soon as I can get that in my hands, I will contact you.<br />Here's a few of the companys that have tested and validate the product as of today, and this is to share with you, quietcat, as you may know someone at one of these and get some quicker info. here goes:<br />Columbia University of New York, D.O.E.-U.S.A., Dow Chemical, Mercury Marine, Ford motor co.,Harley-Davidson, Pfizer, Phillips66, Total Fina Elf, Total, Ricardo Consulting Engineers, and Southwest Research Institute.<br />Here is some other test data of Irrigation pumps powered by diesel engines....baseline test was 200hrs with an additive test duration of 200hours as well;<br />Isuzu 4.0%, John Deere 5.0%, Caterpiller 5.8%, John deere 7.0%, Detroit 9.8%, John deere 11.0%, John deere 11.5%, Detroit 12.0%, John deere 14.0%, John deere 12.8%, Cummins 20.0%, Caterpillar 22.1%. These were randomly picked well engines tested in Nebraska. Ave increase was 11.24% of those tested.<br />I called the company this am and asked if it was OK to send a bottle to another fuel testing facility, and they said "Yes, by all means, let them have at it, and if they choose to do any testing, please notify Me, so I can tell you who to contact with your results".
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Kenny - Are we talking about the Amway (multi-level marketing scheme) product??? Fwiw, Amway has offered some outstanding products in the past. Don’t know about the can-do-everything fuel additive, Freedom Fuel.<br /><br />Also, everyone should understand there is a world of differences between:<br /><br />Approved – ok to use, won’t hurt anything, take it or leave it.<br /><br />Recommended – ok to use, you'll probably get some benefit from using it, but not necessarily.<br /><br />Required – not an option, you gotta use the stuff.<br /><br />I’d be interested to know which of the above manfs you have mentioned have approved the use of the additive, which manfs recommend its use, and if any manf requires that additive in the fuel that gets fed to their engines. Please let us know.<br /><br />QuietCat – please keep us updated.<br /><br />Stevens – thanks.
 

walleyehed

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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

All listed above have approved AND recommend the use. Nobody has said it IS required.<br />And NO, this is not Amway, it is Polar Molecular.<br />BTW, amway has been defunked in the U.S. for years now...they never "Owned" ANY products.<br />It was also not a scheme, people just wouldn't pay for their product and it fell apart for the most part.<br />And, 18rabbit, If it truely saves money, as claimed, why would you want to just continue paying the highest price possible when you have a way to take about 16-18 cents a gallon off your cost AFTER product cost????<br />Why would it be 100% money back, and you have to prove nothing????<br />I too, have been looking for reasons not to use it myself......but after researching what I have, I see no reason NOT to use it, so I do.<br />My wife travels as a PT and we use it in her car, just a run of the mill Lumina, and I don't see any 5mpg increase, we see about 1.75mpg increase...about 6.5% increase, but that meets the claim...I can't argue with that.<br />It saves about 20.00 in a month, not huge, but that's 20.00 that can go to something else, like boat gas, or fishing lures, etc....doesn't matter, it's 20.00 I wouldn't have other-wise, so why not is my question to myself.
 

mattttt25

Commander
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Messages
2,661
Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

is polar molecular traded? owned by another company that is public? if this stuff actually does what you claim, i'll sell the house and buy every bit of stock i can afford.
 

18rabbit

Captain
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Re: Diesel fuel additives; voodoo or real benefits?

Mattttt25 - I wouldn't tell the wife what you're doing.<br /> :D <br /><br /> Polar Molecular Corp (NASDAQ: POMHE)<br /><br />You might call these penny-stocks since Polar Molecular’s stock has dropped 3.23% to 6-cents a share. I think if you just sold the back porch you could buy a controlling interest in the company.<br /> :rolleyes:
 
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