Falcon Bonito restoration

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Engines

Re: Engines

I have nothing to offer about your plans to install or re-power. This boat strikes me as a performance boat, and I don't see many like it that have diesel power. I wasn't able to clearly understand which set up you would end up using. Would diesels give you the desired performance this kind of boat usually inspires? Either way, the project is going to be fun,. and I cant wait to see the result, I'll tag along!

Thanks greenbush future, The boat originaly had a pair of tired mercruiser 5.7 260's and Alpha 1 drives. I bought a twin engine setup, complete with the engines, gear box's and TRS drives. No, it's not going to be an out and out performance boat. The plan is for a fast cruiser that wont burn huge amounts of gas.

I'm hoping some guys will chip in, and comment on the idea, or give other ideas.

Enjoy.

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Engines

Re: Engines

Drilled the transom today, what do you all think?????

Closer

From here

 

[Bondo]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Ayuh,.... Yer Wood is lookin' like it's almost compost, insteada wood...

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Ayuh,.... Yer Wood is lookin' like it's almost compost, insteada wood...

Looks like it. I wouldn't want more than 600HP pushing against that.

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Ok, decisions made. I'm going ahead with the TRS drives. So, first things first, The Transom! I have tried to read as much as I can but hope that I have not interpreted anything wrong. Am I right with the following procedures?

1, With a circular saw, cut lines in the old transom wood, no deeper than the outer glass.
2, Cut out the floor and stringers, at an angle to the transom. Check stringers for rot and remove any if rotten.
3, Chop out all the old transom wood and grind back to clean glass, 6 inches all around repair.
4, Make a template for the new wood and cut out two pieces.
5, Drill 1/4 inch holes through one piece at 6 inch spaces, to allow PB to exit and to give a physical bond.
6, Bond both pieces together with PB.
7, Grind down existing drive holes, to leave a feathered edge. Clamp melamine board, with release wax, over the existing holes. Gell coat and build up the holes to match the overall thickness of the outer skin.
8, PB the transom wood to the outer skin and tab it to all sides.
9, Replace stringers with staggered cuts and tab into transom.
10, Glass over entire repair.
11, Replace floor and glass in.

Hope I got it all right.

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Am I that wrong ??????

 

[Bondo]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Nope,... Not that I can see,...

I'd assemble the transom pieces, In-place, rather than on the bench,...
The pieces are easier to get into place than the Whole thing...

'n by usin' any holes in the transom, you can clamp the pieces together usin' bolts through the holes in the transom..

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Thanks Bondo,

I'm sorry for so many questions. I know it might look like I'm measuring 10 times before I cut but I only want to do this once.

Point taken about assembling inside the boat, it makes sense. Now that I know where the drives will be, I can use these areas for through bolts.

I'm not sure if I mentioned before, but, there is a slight outward bow in the transom. I'm hoping it's the rotting wood that's pushing it out and that it will level off when the wood is out. If not, I guess that a heavy straight edge, inside and out, should pull it into shape? What do you think?

I have also seen that some people put glass on the transom pieces before bonding them together. What are the benefits of doing this, if any?

I will start getting some photos and hope that you guys will give advice step by step.

Thanks again for everyone's time and help.

Peter

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Ok, I need to order some materials.

It's difficult to find materials here, being foreigner on a Spanish island, it's even harder.

So I need the technical names for what I need.

I have found the exterior ply.

I presume that I am better of to do this with Epoxy?

Considering this, what glass should I be buying?

I have found threads on here, giving rough estimates for the amounts needed, so I'm just looking for the correct names for each item, so that I can order the right things.

Thanks

Peter

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Have I said something to offend someone? I'm sure somebody could advise.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

No offense taken by anyone PatriotPhantom...
Sometimes the guys that know stuff either miss your thread or don't really have anything to offer...I have been quietly watching in the background and seeing what develops...looks like a neat project...
Anyhow, You finally asked a question I might be able to help you with...
Here are two places to look to get a ton of information about fiberglass and all of its associated terms and uses...
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ake-fiberglass-information-thread-286013.html
AND...
Check out places like Iboats, USComposites, Fiberglassite, and others on the web...
They will not only give you info on the types of materials you can use, but where and how to use them...
Polyester resin is probably a less expensive choice to work with, but epoxy resin is also used...If the boat was originally made with polyester resin, you should stick with that unless you really want to use epoxy...
Some of the materials you might be looking for if you go with the polyester resin are 1708 Biaxial cloth, 1.5 ounce Chopped Strand Mat[CSM], Milled fibers, Cabosil/Aerosil, Micro-ballons, Lay-up or laminating resin, and finishing materials like paints or gelcoats

Kind of hard to give too many specifics because it depends on what exactly you plan to do and how much of it you need to use...
Hope this helps...
GT1M

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

I'm not sure if I mentioned before, but, there is a slight outward bow in the transom. I'm hoping it's the rotting wood that's pushing it out and that it will level off when the wood is out. If not, I guess that a heavy straight edge, inside and out, should pull it into shape? What do you think?

Make sure the bow is not an intentional, original design...if it is you will have to try and modify it to accept I/O drives...at least that is my extremely IN-experienced thought on that, because I would surmise that twin I/O drives need to be facing the same plane and parallel to each other, if the transom has a built in bow to it, that may not allow it work...but then again, that is just my understanding and lack of knowledge speaking...

I have also seen that some people put glass on the transom pieces before bonding them together. What are the benefits of doing this, if any?

I have heard it is done to help seal the wood against water intrusion...

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Thank you very much GT1M.

I have no way to find out if the "bow" was original or not. It's not huge, from the straight edge, the center is about 1/4 inch (or less) further out than the outer edges of the transom. The transom is quite narrow, only 78 inches wide.

Thanks for pointing out "http://forums.iboats.com/boat-restor...ad-286013.html". I actually found that at the weekend and have bookmarked it, Very helpful!

I have contacted U.S. Composites​, Inc. regarding shipping, if I can't fine a reasonable supplier here. They said "Yes, we can ship epoxy resin to Spain, but not polyester or hazardous resins.". I presume that the boat is built with Polyester but not sure how I can be sure. It was built about 1986 so I presume it was Polyester.

I think that I might have read too much and found conflicting comments. This is what has made me more confused. I was under the impression that Epoxy was the right way to go, because of the strength needed in the transom, more because of the heavy diesels and more than 600HP pushing against it.

I have been trying to make a plan, from what I have found from searching, as in post #25.

I must know exactly what I need to do, before I jump in. Finances are not good and I'm in a catch 22 situation. The engines are on the floor, outside, and although protected well, I don't want to destroy them before I get them in the boat. So, I need to get these in as soon as possible.

Thanks again for your comments, I will ask on those sites and see what they recommend.

Peter

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Morning Peter,

Yes, your boat is most likely made from polyester resin. Although if you are only able to acquire epoxy, then that may be what you have to use. Can you purchase supplies from other near by countries, like Great Britain? The only real drawbacks to using epoxy are higher cost and once you use it, you need to continue to use epoxy compatible product on top of it, because polyester materials may have issues with adhering to the epoxy. On the plus side epoxy is said to be stronger and much more water resistant...
Polyester, properly built up, is successfully used in "go fast" boats all the time with much higher HP ratings.
If I understand correctly, I/O setups transfer most of their thrust forces almost equally through the transom and the mounting points of the engines...so building solid engine mounts along with a well built transom and all the related support structure that goes with them out of polyester resin and cloths/mats, should be more than adequate...In my inexperienced and most humble opinion...

The bow in the transom sounds like it may just be flex induced from the rotten transom, and as long as it flattens out, you should have no problems achieving the necessary parallelism for the drives...

Much Luck...
Gus

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Thanks Gus,

I can get Polyester here, although quite expensive. I was under the impression that I should be using Epoxy.

So, If I can go with Polyester, from what I have read and from your welcome advice, 1708 Biaxial cloth and 1.5 ounce Chopped Strand Mat (CSM) are the main types of glass I will need? The Milled fibers, Cabosil/Aerosil and Micro-ballons are for peanut butter and fairing, is this correct?
Do you know what type of layup I should be looking at? I have found the image below, on here. It's a little hard to read but I am guessing I can follow this but glue the wood together with peanut butter and CMS?

Thanks again, for all your help.

Peter

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

This might be easier to see..

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Thank you Woodonglass, much clearer.

Have you got any suggestions for this project?

Peter

 

[jmmacky]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Hi Patriot. Great looking boat! There must be a fibreglass supplier in Spain and if not there will definitely be many in Europe. I would be much cheaper to buy over here than get supplies imported from the US. Also delivery times will be lengthy plus import tax. I did a bit of google research to find a supplier in the UK. Some things just have slightly different names over here compared to the US. Also, our prices seem to be a fair bit higher than in the US but it is what it is! Good luck

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Some boats have a slight outward bow to the transom. I'm not familiar with your boat so not sure if it's supposed to or not. If it is, you need to keep it that way. To do that you should use multiple layers of 3/8" plywood to make it easy to bend and form to the shape of the outer skin. For this big of a boat, I'd recommend using epoxy to glue the multiple laminations of the transom together. 2 Gals should be enough. You can switch back to Poly for everything else. You could also use Gorilla Glue if available in Spain. Bond-o is one of the best iBoats members to give you advice on this style of boat, so send him a PM anytime you have a question that is not getting answered. I'm more of an Old 50's 60's small runabout kinda guy, and don't know much about the I/O BIG boat stuff. Done some glassin and paintin in my past and lot's of woodworking. Glad to help when and where I can.

 

[PatriotPhantom]

Re: Falcon Bonito restoration

Thanks jmmacky and Woodonglas.

I'm talking to some suppliers in the UK but Polyester has shipping restrictions. Looks like I will have to buy the Polyester here and ship in the Epoxy from the UK.

I guess the deciding factor now, is the bow, whether it's intentional or not. I guess that determines whether I need to use Epoxy or not?

Would it be ok to PM Bond-o, to ask about this?

Thanks again.

Peter