Grinding alpha

[SSTKO81]

First of all I'm not 100% if my drive is an Alpha or MR1. but the issue is universal.... I'm finding that after a little time in idle i'm getting a periodic grinding type noise coming from what sounds like the drive or right behind the engine. It does cause the 140 to bog a little bit when it happens but nothing too serious. I've even noticed it when out on plane. I thought it might be a lubrication issue, but havent found any metal or signs of deterioration in the drive oil. Maybe the gibal bearing? How can I tell?

 

[ziggy]

Re: Grinding alpha

Maybe the gibal bearing?

sounds like a good first place to look to me.

How can I tell?

ya pull the drive. then stick your fingers into the gimble brg. itself and spin it. it should have no feel, no sound, no nothing but totally smooth.

if ya havn't had yer drive off for a while, it's a good idea to do so. there's maint. to be performed with the drive removed. ie. inspect bellows, inspect gimble brg., grease ujoints (assuming ya have greasable ujoints, which some aren't), check alignment, inspect for water intrusion into bellows area.

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

I was afraid you'd say that... I've never had the whole drive off before. Only the Lower unit. If fact I've known this boat for 25 years and I couldn't tell you if it's EVER had the bearings or Ujoints lubed... Crap. -the joys of a "free" boat.

Its my understanding that special tools are required for aligning and pulling/installing the gimbal? Is that right?

 

[WILSONS88]

Re: Grinding alpha

Here is a site that will help. Check out Friscoboater's thread in the restore section or on You Tube under Frisco Jarrets. He has some video of him pulling his gimble bearing and some others. He has a Bravo drive but the procedure is the same for pulling it out. I think you can get the alignment tool off of Amazon for 35 or 40 bucks.

http://www.sterndrives.com/mercruiserhelp.html

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

well I went out and pulled the drive (pretty simple...) and I reached in thru the bellows and found no singns of water intrusion and to tell the truth that gimbal feels slicker than cat snot on a door knob. LIttle to no "roughness". No noise. No binding at all. So now I don't know what Im looking for... could still be the alignment I guess.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Grinding alpha

well I went out and pulled the drive (pretty simple...)

way to go.

found no singns of water intrusion

excellent, that's as it should be.

that gimbal feels slicker than cat snot on a door knob. LIttle to no "roughness". No noise. No binding at all.

that's good, except for the LIttle to no "roughness'' part. none is the word, a little and i believe it would be advised to replace it.

well, now ya can run your alignment bar to check that. look at the splines in the coupler. your looking for if the splines are pointy, they should be square on the ends at the outside dia.

ya can check your ujoints and grease them now.

ya can start the engine momentarily start the engine. see if the vibration is present w/o the drive. ya can hand spin the drive shaft to the drive, see if it spins freely. granted it may be stiff to turn as the impeller slows ya down.

something that happened to me last season was when i went to R&R my impeller. i happened to turn my drive shaft on my upper. when separated, the upper drive shaft turns real easy. well, i felt a grinding feel + a grinding sound when i did this. turned out to be a rusty, pitted brg. in the cap of the upper that supports the driven gear shaft.

hopefully others will have some other ideas for ya.

edit. after thought. could your grinding noise be also called a rattle? flappers (water shutter) come to mind if that's the case.

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

I'm under the impression that this bearing is premo. -which really surprises me given the age, but it may have been better maintained than I thought. Is there any way to grease it without going thru the pain in the butt to remove it? judging by every other painstaking process I'll just assume not.
I went ahead and greased the ujoints, which were nice and tight, but free moving.
The noise I'm hearing really sounds like a metal on metal grinding or even a vibration. I suppose the exhaust shutters arent out of the question. I've heard of these getting loose and causing all kinds of weird noise.
Hey, but I gotta ask, whats the purpose of the tang that is attached to the shift cable?
Looks like it runs back to the drive, but theres nothing in the drive that connects to it.

 

[Peaceful Pirate]

Re: Grinding alpha

You might remove the upper cap on your outdrive and check the tapered roller bearing on the top of the upper drive shaft. This bearing can make one hell of a racket when they get pitted or close to the end of their life. Easy to replace with a simple puller.

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

remove the upper cap on your outdrive and check the tapered roller bearing on the top of the upper drive shaft.

Will I need to drain the drive oil befor I do this or is it isolated like the drive and gimbal? I just put new oil in the drive is why I ask...:facepalm:
I'm hoping this is the real cause of the problem; sounds almost like ziggy just described. Plus its cheap and easy to replace...

 

[Peaceful Pirate]

Re: Grinding alpha

Your upper max-fill plug is below the cap line. Simply remove the four retaining screws and lift the cap. Watch for the thin O-ring that seals the cap to the upper housing. After re-reading ziggy's post, I think you are right, he and I are talking about the same bearing.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Grinding alpha

yep. were talking about the same thing..

that's the brg. i had to R&R.

and the race.

that's the new brg. much difference.

be advised that if ya change out brgs. then you must go through the shim process. + check rolling torque of the driven gear shaft. i didn't have the tools so ended up having my local dealer do the deed....

if ya remove the cap. replace the o ring. it's not a re use item.

not saying this is your problem. just a possibility. i didn't even know i had issue till i had the upper isolated and then rotated the drive shaft.

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha


The bearing with the red arrow, right? I'm gonna go ahead and grab part numbers for when replacement time comes. Glad to know its above the oil line... Should make it a snap. (knock on wood)

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

Thanks for the pictures zig! big time help! I'll check it out and let you know what I find. Thanks again guys.

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

Holy ship wreck! You guys were dead on. This bearing is GONE. Theres a bunch of 3/16" needle bearings just floundering down in the oil. I'm lucky I didn't destroy any gears! This may also solve some of the vibration issues I've had with the motor.
I'm looking at the cap though, and there's some definate scoring and cracking around the bearing housing. I think I'm going to have to replace the whole thing.

 

[Peaceful Pirate]

Re: Grinding alpha

I hate to ruin your day, however; from the looks of the first view, I would not get too excited about the gears just yet. You apparently have not only lost the upper bearing, but from the color of the lub, some of the bearings appear to have been ground up. That means you may have pieces-parts floating all over the place. If this one was mine, I think I would pull it all apart from top to bottom. It might be time to consult your local mechanic, or even consider looking around for a replacement. Sometimes you can pickup a good used outdrive for less than you can pay a shop to service one. Just my two-cents worth.

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

Believe me, I'm right there with you.... Both ends of this drive have seen better days. My goal is to make it thru the summer. After that I've got all winter to tear it down and rebuild/replace it. Which may be exactly what happens... -I've already started looking into replacements.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Re: Grinding alpha

That drive is now a "parts" unit. You need to find another unit. The lower is more than likely OK, but you will need to disassemble and clean up. The upper is a complete loss.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Re: Grinding alpha

BTW, it appears you have not monitored your lube level & condition. Milky oil will coat all the lower parts and keep them in good shape, but the top gear & bearing take the beating.

 

[Peaceful Pirate]

Re: Grinding alpha

SSTKO81 ? Another thought for you ? We have had some success shopping complete rigs off of Craigslist, pulling engines and outdrives, along with anything else worth anything, then hauling what is left to the local dump. Just last year we picked up a ?86 boat with a 140 hp and outdrive, along with the trailer, for $150. The boat was a total mess, transom shot and all inside wood gone, but the engine had stayed covered. Folks just wanted the thing hauled off. Might be a good way for you to get not only another outdrive, but also a spare engine and parts. The only caution here would be to watch for engines that have been uncovered; remembering that on a 4-cyl, you always have valves open and any water that goes down the carb ends up sitting in a cylinder.

 

[SSTKO81]

Re: Grinding alpha

well y'all are just a bunch of friggin' rays of sunshine aren't ya? lol bah! It's just money.