HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

[zevi]

Greetings!

During the winter I acquired a Lowrance HDS7 package with the StructureScan module. The warming temperatures elevated my boating itch, and after de-winterizing the boat this weekend -- I'm getting ready to install the system.

My first struggle is mounting the transducers: the Skimmer which comes with the HDS7 and the (long...) LSS-2 of the StructureScan. In the last few months I spent hours reading forums and watching online videos trying to get ready for actually mounting the transducers and other components. Following are some guideline instructions that I'm trying to follow (also pointing out conflicting information I found in forums/videos):

1. Unless I want to track with the StructureScan at planing speeds (which I don't) -- I can mount the LSS-2 transducer above the level where it's flush with the bottom of the hull; in other words - it will be in the water only at low speed, and out of the water at planing speeds. Lowrance recommends that setup as it helps protecting the sensor and reduces drag.

2. Most online information I found calls for installation on the starboard side; Lowrance makes no such distinction, and both port and starboard side are equally good. On my boat installation room is tight (as pictures show below), I already have the speed sensor mounted on the starboard side of the outdrive, so I prefer to mount on the port side.

3. Some online information make the point of installing the Skimmer transducer so it's above the LSS-2 transducer (so it's out of the scanning view of the LSS-2). Lowrance makes no such requirement. Is that a real concern? Anyone knows the field of view of the LSS-2? Lowrance says that the two transducers should be within 12" of each other, so I can't really mount them one on the port side of the outdrive and the other on the starboard side. Also, the LSS-2 is very long (about 10"), so if I mount it too close to the outdrive it will get whacked on tight turns; and given the Vee of the hull -- if the Skimmer is close to the drive and the LSS-2 is further out - it will put it even higher above the Skimmer...

4. Lowrance specifically says NOT to mount the LSS-2 at the bottom of the hull.

5. On my boat the drive is on a "recessed transom" with two "pods" protruding back on either side (the stainless rods in the image are supports for the swim platform); I'm afraid to put the transducers all the way on the back of these pods because I *know* that sooner or later they'll get whacked or whack someone (swimming when moored, etc.)

What do you think? How would you go about mounting these transducers?

BTW: If there's a good place you can refer me to with concise information on procedures and specific materials/sealers I should get (e.g., simply drill, fill the hole with 3M-5200 and mount the screw?)

Your help and advice is much appreciated!

Zevi.

 

[blackhawk180]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

With the HDS 7, you have a very accurate GPS speed display. I would consider removing the existing sensor at the transom and replacing that with the standard transducer. Totally agree on the LSS-2 above the bottom to protect it.
You will love the HDS-7 and won't miss the old speedometer if you choose to use that location for the 'ducer.

 

[zevi]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

With the HDS 7, you have a very accurate GPS speed display. I would consider removing the existing sensor at the transom and replacing that with the standard transducer. Totally agree on the LSS-2 above the bottom to protect it.
You will love the HDS-7 and won't miss the old speedometer if you choose to use that location for the 'ducer.

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I was also thinking about eliminating the original speed sensor, but I prefer not to do it for 3 reasons (not necessarily in order of importance): (1) it will really bug me each time I look at the dead speedo in the instruments panel, (2) I will not always operate the boat with the HDS7 unit mounted, and (3) this will not address the tight installation space for the t'ducers -- only the starboard vs. port question; given that Lowrance does not have a preference -- does it really matter? Why do I want to put these on the starboard side? (prop rotation takes place about 2 ft back)

Thanks!
Zevi

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

My experience with side scan (Humminbird) is that the head sees everything next to it within 5 degrees of horizontal.
I can easily see the legs of swimmers in the water 100 ft from the boat.
Mounting yours back on the extended transom will have the transducer looking at the side of the outdrive. Not good.

Mounting it behind the transom in an area that is in the air on plane may also be an area of high turbulence at trolling speed.
If the water around the transducer is full of bubbles and not clean flowing, you can expect to see noise in the return signal.
Other than the Transom mount option in the LOWRANCE INSTRUCTIONS, I can't vision how the transducer would NOT be operating in foamy water unless you were stopped!

I found the sweet spot was a little to the side of the garboard fitting. Low enough to see under the hull.
And far enough out that the transducers wake will not go under the AV plate of the outdrive and interfere with the prop.

 

[zevi]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

My experience with side scan (Humminbird) is that the head sees everything next to it within 5 degrees of horizontal. I can easily see the legs of swimmers in the water 100 ft from the boat.
Mounting yours back on the extended transom will have the transducer looking at the side of the outdrive. Not good.

These are great points -- never realized the view is almost horizontal, and also I didn't think of the outdrive blocking the view if mounted on the extended transom (another reason I don't want to put it there...) -- thanks!

Mounting it behind the transom in an area that is in the air on plane may also be an area of high turbulence at trolling speed. If the water around the transducer is full of bubbles and not clean flowing, you can expect to see noise in the return signal.

I'm not talking very high - maybe 1" above the bottom of the hull? Also, if that's the case -- are you saying that Lawrence instructions (for "Step mount") are wrong/misleading?

I found the sweet spot was a little to the side of the garboard fitting. Low enough to see under the hull.
And far enough out that the transducers wake will not go under the AV plate of the outdrive and interfere with the prop.

Everyday you learn something new: I have to admit that you sent me Googling with that: I didn't know what "garboard" is, and not sure yet about the "AV plate": are these the anti-cavitation fins that extend sideways, shown just below the trim cylinders? If that's the case, given my boat-specific constraints, it seems like the only place to put it is near the bottom/port corner of where the outdrive is attached to the transom, at a height that is slightly below the top edge of the garboard fitting, correct? I need to take a very close, careful look to see if under fully down-trimmed, port-steered conditions I'm not hitting the LSS-2...

Thanks again!
Zevi

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

I'm not talking very high - maybe 1" above the bottom of the hull? Also, if that's the case -- are you saying that Lawrence Instructions ... are wrong/misleading?

I wanted to be nice, But I am glade you said it.
I contacted the manufacturer when installing mine.
They kept sending examples of normal transducer mountings. Poor results followed!
I asked for help on this forum and got only a few generic responses.
Apparently, I am now the local expert! That is a scary thought!

I didn't know what "garboard" is, and not sure yet about the "AV plate": are these the anti-cavitation fins that extend sideways, shown just below the trim cylinders? If that's the case, given my boat-specific constraints, it seems like the only place to put it is near the bottom/port corner of where the outdrive is attached to the transom, at a height that is slightly below the top edge of the garboard fitting, correct? I need to take a very close, careful look to see if under fully down-trimmed, port-steered conditions I'm not hitting the LSS-2...

Garboard Fitting = "The Plug!"
AV Plate = Anti-Ventilation Plate, Often wrongly called the "Cavitation Plate"
The AV Plate is the one immediately above the prop.

Cavitation and Ventilation are two completely different physical phenomenon.
Now you have something else to look up!!! :joyous:


Get it as low as you can and you will not regret it.




When drilling holes..
Drill a very small pilot hole no deeper than necessary.
Notice how the gel-coat chipped around the hole!!!
Countersink the hole as if you were going to install a flat head screw.
This will remove the chips and allow the final hole a clean shot.
Drill the hole to the correct size for the screw of choice.
Countersink again so that you can see a little of the base fiberglass showing around the drilled hole.
Dry fit the screw and remove.
Fill the hole and the countersink with 3M 4200 or 5200 sealant. Never SILICON! NEVER!
Put sealant on the fitting and on the Screw Threads. Tighten it down.
The countersunk area will act like a custom o-ring around the screw.
Without it, it is possible to squeeze all the sealant out of the joint when it is tightened. :grumpy:

Yes! 4200/5200 is pricey stuff and it sets up hard in the tube in a week or two after opening.
Store it in a Plastic Bag in the Freezer. It will keep for years!

 

[zevi]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

Wow. UncleWillie - thank you SO much for such a detailed and informative reply!

I asked for help on this forum and got only a few generic responses.
Apparently, I am now the local expert! That is a scary thought!

Well, guess what - I'm already luckier than you :yo:
Your reply is far from generic, and there's definitely more than just a hint of expertise there...

Cavitation and Ventilation are two completely different physical phenomenon.
Now you have something else to look up!!!

Did I already say that we learn something every day? For the benefit of those curious minds out there -- I found this article to be helpful.

Loved the mods of the images! Really help. That's the place I thought you meant in your earlier post, I need to check and make sure that throughout the up/down trim range at full port-side steering, the outdrive does not hit the LSS-2.

When drilling holes..
Drill a very small pilot hole no deeper than necessary.
Notice how the gel-coat chipped around the hole!!!
Countersink the hole as if you were going to install a flat head screw.
This will remove the chips and allow the final hole a clean shot.
Drill the hole to the correct size for the screw of choice.
Countersink again so that you can see a little of the base fiberglass showing around the drilled hole.
Dry fit the screw and remove.
Fill the hole and the countersink with 3M 4200 or 5200 sealant. Never SILICON! NEVER!
Put sealant on the fitting and on the Screw Threads. Tighten it down.
The countersunk area will act like a custom o-ring around the screw.
Without it, it is possible to squeeze all the sealant out of the joint when it is tightened

(Did I already say that I'm luckier than you getting non-generic responses?... :joyous

Risking a potentially confusing drawing -- when all said and done and the bracket is attached -- is that what a typical "cross cut" of the screw installation would look like (blue is the space where the 5200 sealant is "trapped")?



BTW: My son and me are heading down to your fine state this weekend to do certification open-water dives at the Gilboa Quarry near Findlay. I'll have to make sure my "Go Blue" signs are not too visible...

Thanks,
Zevi.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

Yep! you got it!

The countersink under the bracket is the secret to the seal.
As usual, The Devil is in the fine details.

I took my Open Water at White Star Quarry a little East of there in '99.
You may need a Dry Suit, or you're gon'na freeze your "Behind" Off!

Do us all a favor:
At the top of this page, click "My Profile".
Click the little Yellow Pencil next to "Location".
Fill in your General Location; City, State.
We only know from the hint, that it is somewhere in Michigan.

 

[zevi]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

You may need a Dry Suit, or you're gon'na freeze your "Behind" Off!

They gave us 7mm wetsuits. A girl at the diveshop was there last week and she said that it might be bit cold - but should be enough. I don't think you can really do the certification dives with dry suit; also too bulky for my son (10-1/2). Will report when we're back... :concern:

Do us all a favor:
At the top of this page, click "My Profile".
Click the little Yellow Pencil next to "Location".
Fill in your General Location; City, State.
We only know from the hint, that it is somewhere in Michigan.

Good point. Done!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

They gave us 7mm wetsuits. A girl at the diveshop was there last week and she said that it might be bit cold - but should be enough. I don't think you can really do the certification dives with dry suit; also too bulky for my son (10-1/2). Will report when we're back... :concern:

The dry suit comment was a joke. You should get a separate certification for one.
The 7mm will make you feel like BIB, the Michelin Tire Man.
A hood and gloves will be appreciated. But you won't be down long.
As a new diver you will be lucky to make the tank last 30 minutes.

I have surfaced after 95 minutes with 1100# Remaining. You'll get there.
We came up early because the water was only 82 and we were getting cold.

 

[zevi]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

Get it as low as you can and you will not regret it.

View attachment 192963 View attachment 192964

So, finally go to spend some quality time with the StructureScan transducer (cleaning & repacking wheel bearings was messy, but higher priority for obvious reasons...)

The images below show the transducer (very temporarily) positioned where I think is the only possible spot. The drive is at its worst position: full down-trim, full port steer. My 1st observation is that I'm probably out of luck getting good reading to the starboard; I hope I'll see something, but with the lower drive obstructing about a third of the StructureScan transducer length -- probably this system was simply not designed for such a boat :-( .

Other than that, the transducer has at least 1" - 2" clearance all around from the drive. I'm not too comfortable with that. What are your thoughts? I'd hate to scrap the whole idea of installing this system... My plan for the installation of the skimmer transducer is to mount it to the left and above (as viewed in these images) of the long StructureScan transducer.

Thank you,
Zevi.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: HDS7+StructureScan installation in a Four Winns 190 - Advice Needed

Man that thing is HUGE!
My Humminbird Transducer projects just under 4.5" including the bracket.



I was going to say to mount it directly to the Keel of the boat.
Instructions are more like general guidelines in my book! Parlay! ?
Unfortunately, the Keel rollers kill that idea. :blue:

Try it! It just may work better than expected! Or NOT!

The last resort would be to mount it to a TowFish.

 

[gica]

This is an old thread but I have the same issue with a stern drive and a 3D transducer placement. I don't have the roller set up so it's clear for a keel install with a flat bracket and some epoxy magic. Will this affect water flow to the engine?
Tried to load pics but I get upload error.

 

[jbcurt00]

This is an old thread.....

That is now closed

Please observe the 90day inactivity rule and dont post to old topics.

Start a topic about your transducer's placement