Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

[Jquest]

Ok...here's the story. My boat had a prop that was to small for it. I got the correct prop and took it out. Most of the day it ran fine. On my way home, when I finally slowed down( idle speed channel markers), I started to hear a grind noise. Luckily the channels markers are right next to the boat ramps ,so I made it out without it completly getting trashed. I got home and fired up the engine and since the gears where making the noise in the water...I figured the gears were ground up already. I popped it into gear. The propeller spun fine. I put it back to neutral and didn't do it again. I just wanted to make sure it didn't make any noise without a load. <br />I read Joe Reeve's post about "the dog" and how when it's worn...pressure will cause it to separate from the gears. Thus you hear the grinding noise. It looks like by putting a prop that had more pitch and was the correct size...finally made it let go. <br />Now... to the lower unit. If I put it in gear with the engine off...it will go into forward and reverse. BUT!! there is play in both positions. I can move the prop and here the gears clank. So there is too much play.<br />I have taken it apart. I have removed the carrier bearing and the rev. gear. I have also removed the shift shaft after putting it in the downward position like the manual asked. I have also removed drive shaft bearing carrier to the trust bearing. Everything looks good and I put a tie wrap on the parts in the sequence that I removed them so I don't have to guess in what order. <br />Now the hard part.The drive shaft moves about 1/2 inch upwards and then stops. It hits something. I cannot removed it and I don't want to force it. If I can't take out the drive shaft...I can't take out the propeller shaft with the dog,for.gear and shift assembly. What I'm I doing wrong or need to do to finish getting out the parts?[/B]<br />BTW...rear gear has the edges rounded so I expect the forward ones to be the same, maybe a bit worse. By stopping and taking it apart now...It only looks like I have to replace the gears and obviously the seal kit.<br />

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

First of all, you need a service manual so you know what you are doing and how to remove and install the parts correctly and without damage.<br /><br />The pinion nut and gear have to be removed first to remove the shift assy and propshaft. You will have 18 loose pinion bearing rollers falling free also.<br /><br />Both the clutch dog and the reverse gear will need replacing. Chances are Fwd. gear is OK.

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Originally posted by seahorse:<br /> First of all, you need a service manual so you know what you are doing and how to remove and install the parts correctly and without damage.<br /><br />The pinion nut and gear have to be removed first to remove the shift assy and propshaft. You will have 18 loose pinion bearing rollers falling free also.<br /><br />Both the clutch dog and the reverse gear will need replacing. Chances are Fwd. gear is OK.

I do have the manual. <br />ok...ok....reading the manual again...it says grab on to the pinion nut and turn the shaft. Now the fun begins...

 

[red boat]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

7/8" pinion nut

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

thank you Red Boat!!

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

ok...got the nut off and the pinion nut is stuck!! DOH!! Any home made idears on how to get it off? I don't want to grab the shaft with anything that will maul it.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

You got the nut off, but the pinion nut is stuck. Do you understand what the cost is of the parts you are dealing with? This is not a kitchen table repair. Plus! it is the clutch dog, and forward gear that take the beating, Not reverse. You will have to make, or buy the tool's shown in the manual. If reverse gear shows damage, you can bet that the pinion, and forward are no better. You are looking at a gear set, with all bearing's, and thrust washers, and a seal set for a proper repair.

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Originally posted by R.Johnson:<br /> You got the nut off, but the pinion nut is stuck. Do you understand what the cost is of the parts you are dealing with? This is not a kitchen table repair. Plus! it is the clutch dog, and forward gear that take the beating, Not reverse. You will have to make, or buy the tool's shown in the manual. If reverse gear shows damage, you can bet that the pinion, and forward are no better. You are looking at a gear set, with all bearing's, and thrust washers, and a seal set for a proper repair.

Thank you for answering RJ. I know how much it's gonna cost. I've already checked out all the prices and such. As far as the tools...I have a garage full of tools. I didn't have the puller for the bearing carrier, but going to home depot and buying a 36" SS threaded rod (cut into 2 pieces 12"long) and a couple of nuts I made a puller. Worked great. I didn't have the spindle wrench, but I was able to hold/turn the shaft without mauling it and removed the nut. I can improvise and make the tools as needed. I also weld for a hobby. <br />A question I have for you though. If all the bearings and the thrust washers look fine...I still should replace them? I did find one (item 53 from the drawing, thrust washer) that looked eaten up. But I believe that one comes with the gear. Getting back to the pinion gear. The manual talks about a puller(390706) that is attached to the shaft. I don't want to use anthing like that yet cause it attaches to the wedge were the water pump goes. I don't want to mess with that, so I"m not worried about that yet. I have a few ideas. The question is...do these pinion bears stick on so hard all the time? I just wanna know what I'm dealing with so I know how to attack the problem.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Just a thought -- once you get the shaft out and are ready to go back together, do you have the shim tool?

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

The pinion gear is a taper fit onto the driveshaft and has to be broken free, thus the tool for the driveshaft. Some folks uses wedges and hammers, but most of the time that damages the threads and the propshaft. Both those items are very expensive.<br /><br />Follow the service manual. That is the correct way to do things.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

use the soft jaws on your vise. lock the shaft in the vise. tap the gearcase away from the shaft with a dead blow hammer.<br /> if you cut up the shaft with visegrips or pipe wrench they tend to fail at the gouged areas.<br /> you will need the pinion holding tool or its home made equivalent to properly torque the pinion nut(new one not the old one) I have made drive shaft holding tools from old cranks, use a chop saw and cut off the splined end of the particular type unit your working with. weld a 1/2" drive socket to it or just go drop a dime and purchase it. my advice is to have the seals in the bearing carriers installed by someone with the proper drivers and dont use the socket and hammer method. but its your unit.<br /> the other method of pinon gear removal is to back the pinion nut off 3 turns, shift the clutch to fwd and smak upwards on the propshaft with your hands. it does not take much.

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Originally posted by Dhadley:<br /> Just a thought -- once you get the shaft out and are ready to go back together, do you have the shim tool?

WOW!!! thx for all the advise folks!! D, what I've done is...as I remove the parts...I've keeped them in order( using a zip tie).IF the shims look fine, not warped or anything, do I need to get new ones? I figured as long as the shims are ok and in their original order...I shouldn't have to worry about them?

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> use the soft jaws on your vise. lock the shaft in the vise. tap the gearcase away from the shaft with a dead blow hammer.

That's what I'm doing, sort of. I've put a piece of alluminum sheet (4x6", 1/4' thick) on each side of the vise and put the shaft in the middle. Then I've tighten. Nice tight fit and the aluminum gives alittle so it's contoured. I have weights at home so I put them through the shaft and lifted it about 1/8"inch of the ground and put a piece of wood underneath. I was hoping gravity would take effect and with the weight on the lower unit...it would break loose. But it didn't happen. What I'm gonna do is....I have a hydralic jack. I'm going to position it between the vise and the lower unit - making sure the shaft stays centered and slowly pump the jack. It should break it away. Like I said before. I'm only 1/8" inches off the ground and wood underneath the phin. When it cuts loose...the movement should be minimal. Obviously...I've also place other pieces around so the lower unit doesn't fall off to the side or any thing. The hammer will be the last thing I try. I try to stay away from those sudden jerks/breakaway. It's more uncontrolled.

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> my advice is to have the seals in the bearing carriers installed by someone with the proper drivers and dont use the socket and hammer method. but its your unit.

I have access to a complete machine shop at work with all the bells and whistles. I'll ask the supervisor(a good buddy) there to press them in for me.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

When you have a gear failure such as what you are dealing with, the gear face's start flaking away. The problem being, those piece's are glass hard, and they get run through every moving part of the assembly. This can cause galling of the bearing surface. It is not always plain to see with the naked eye. You said you have a thrust washer showing this damage. That washer is bearing hard, so you can see the damage those gear piece's can cause. What I was trying to point out was you don't want your new parts to fail again because of a bearing failure. The pinion bearing is another place in your gearcase where the proper tool's are needed. In your case! having a garage full of tool's is a real plus. I have seen many parts' that looked like someone went after them with a stone axe, and tiger tooth chisel.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Well, you mentioned that a thrust washer looked worn. I'd think that alone would call for checking the clearances. I'd check the clearances anyway. Whether somethings worn or not. Whoever put the gearcase together last time may not have used the same (correct) torque you are. Even the factory.

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Originally posted by R.Johnson:<br /> When you have a gear failure such as what you are dealing with, the gear face's start flaking away. The problem being, those piece's are glass hard, and they get run through every moving part of the assembly. This can cause galling of the bearing surface. It is not always plain to see with the naked eye. You said you have a thrust washer showing this damage. That washer is bearing hard, so you can see the damage those gear piece's can cause. What I was trying to point out was you don't want your new parts to fail again because of a bearing failure. The pinion bearing is another place in your gearcase where the proper tool's are needed. In your case! having a garage full of tool's is a real plus.

Gotcha!! <br />

Originally posted by R.Johnson:<br />[QB]I have seen many parts' that looked like someone went after them with a stone axe, and tiger tooth chisel. <br /><br />Too funny ,but the truth!!

 

[Jquest]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Yahtzee!!! Finally came apart with some jacks on each side pushing the main unit away from the vise. WHEW!! Tomorrow I'll post some pics of the pieces. I have a very powerful scope at work and a digital camera. We use them to get pics of surface mount components ( IC's , resistors , diodes and stuff). <br />Here are the gear part numbers<br />Pinion 348115<br />dog clutch 337774<br />Reverse 336561<br />Here is the problem child. Forward gear. I have this number off of the gear.435086 <br />Did it change? Cause I can't find it.<br /><br />One question and please don't go crazy on me. I'm only asking. I haven't done anything yet. <br />Can I connect a hose to the engine on the under part and crank it? I don't want the carbs to gunk up while I'm doing this repair.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

Unless you take a few months, the carbs should be fine.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Help with 2000 V6 lower unit disassembly, please..

The fwd. gear and pinion are a matched set and is part number 5004216. If you have to replace them, then you will need the shimming tools to locate the pinion gear precisely.