High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

[allpoints360]

My question for the forum is where do you rate boat manufactures in terms of the quality of materials used together with the craftsmanship of the fit and finish of the hull, deck and components? What manufacturers would you put in the high end categories, the mid range and the entry level?

This is totally subjective, but it should be based on your experience. If you?ve owned the boat, how do YOU rate the quality of the boat? Maybe you?ve owned several and can compare.

I?ve owned a Grady White, Boston Whaler, Triton, Cape Horn, McKee Craft, Mirage, Delta and Donzi, not counting the Jon boats. The Triton 22 Sea Flight was the best of them all, and I would put that in the high end. Just a super quality build. The McKee and Whaler were close, but I?d say they were upper-mid range, and the rest were probably solid mid range, with the Donzi being lower mid range. My friend had a Carolina Skiff that I'm sure he'd say was entry level.

It would be great to know what you think about your boats!

 

[Fireman431]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

For what type of boat?

Fishing, cruising, offshore, ski, express, motor yacht, pontoon, deck?

What year? Pre-1980, 81-90, 91-00, 01-10?

What length? <18, 18-24, 25-30, 31-40, >40?

Gas, diesel, sail?

Not trying to be a jerk, but as an example, the Bayliner 17' Capri is built totally different from the Bayliner 40' (Meridian) MY. I owned a 1980 Bayliner bowrider (20') and it was the biggest POS I ever had. rotted floor, VP engine than only ran good while in the driveway, wiring problems, etc. I also owned a Bayliner Trophy WA cuddy (20') with a 150 Merc O/B and it was one of the best boats I ever had. Ran flawlessy, solid, easy to handle, blah, blah, blah.

It just depends what you are looking for.

 

[allpoints360]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

Yes. Any year, any type, any length. That's what I'm thinking. Great example, I've never heard anyone call a Bayliner "high end". But you owned one.

Quality built boats are not the norm, but they have been built through the years by different manufacturers in a variety of sizes. And I'm thinking about the BUILD of the boat... the materials and craftsmanship... not so much how it ran. I could put a new motor on just about any boat and it will run great.

For years, I've heard people say things like "they couldn't afford to build a boat like that today", talking about a Bertram. I think they are saying that to compliment the quality of the build of the boat.

 

[dingbat]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

Quality is a perceptual, conditional and somewhat subjective attribute. Without a defination its an open playing field.

Various interpretations are given below:

ISO 9000: "Degree to which a set of inherent characteristics fulfills requirements." The standard defines requirement as need or expectation.

Six Sigma: "Number of defects per million opportunities."

Philip B. Crosby: "Conformance to requirements."
The requirements may not fully represent customer expectations;

Joseph M. Juran: "Fitness for use." Fitness is defined by the customer.

Noriaki Kano and others, present a two-dimensional model of quality: "must-be quality" and "attractive quality."
The former is near to "fitness for use" and the latter is what the customer would love, but has not yet thought about. Supporters characterize this model more succinctly as: "Products and services that meet or exceed customers' expectations."

American Society for Quality: "A subjective term for which each person has his or her own definition".

In technical usage, quality can have two meanings:
a. The characteristics of a product or service that bear on its ability to satisfy stated or implied needs;
b. A product or service free of deficiencies."

Peter Drucker: "Quality in a product or service is not what the supplier puts in. It is what the customer gets out and is willing to pay for."

Gerald M. Weinberg: "Value to some person".

 

[allpoints360]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

Quality is a perceptual, conditional and somewhat subjective attribute. Without a defination its an open playing field.

dingbat, you take me back to business school. I'll bet Drucker wasn't thinking about a boat when he made that remark.

But what do YOU think? Is Grady White a mid range boat? You own one. Did you find where they cut corners, compromised on components, or used the best materials available with a highest level of fit and finish. I owned one, but I told you what I thought.

Since quality is subjective, there's no right or wrong answers.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

All boats are different. The materials and fit/finish can range from acceptable (Glastron/Lund/Key Largo) to average (Bayliner/Aqua/Key West) to upper (Grady/Wellcraft/Baja) to superb (Buddy Davis/Hatteras/Bertram) and everything in between. But, there are Glastrons still running around today and there are Bertrams on the bottom of the ocean.

Like I mentioned earlier, even the same manufacturer will have varying degrees of "acceptability" in their own boats, depending on size, design, and price.

Bayliner had a crappy reputation until 1993-4 when they retooled and redesigned all of their boats. Less wood, better stringer, better lamination, but they still get a bum rap. That's why bayliner changed the name of it's yachts to Meridian.

Carver had a low reputation until the early 90's when their vessels had to change to conform to NMMA specs and now their customer satisfaction ratings are in the 90% range, but the name still carries some stigma among older boaters who know the history.

Low draft bay boats can have identical hulls and power plants, but the single hulled versions don't rate as high as the lined boats, but their lighter, so they out perform the truly better boat.

Rinker has an excellent fit & finish, but the VP powerplants are causing them customers. A beautiful boat that never sees the water is a waste of money.

Most decisions as to the best boats come down to what each person likes the best, the use, the maintenance, and the affordibility.

PLEASE...no hate mail from any owners of the boats listed above...they were only mentioned in passing. :redface:

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

The Grady and Whaler owners that I know would certainly classify their boats as top notch as far as construction quality goes. I would tend to aggree with them

The best built boat I've owned is my current 1969 model Slickcraft built by Grew boats. Very solid build, mahogony stringers and strong deep v hull. The boat is 41 years old and I am looking at replacing the ORIGINAL stringers this winter.

Other quality boats I've been in include Hourstan Glasscrafts and Double Eagle. Both are built locally and are of exceptional quality.

 

[dingbat]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

dingbat, you take me back to business school. I'll bet Drucker wasn't thinking about a boat when he made that remark.

But what do YOU think? Is Grady White a mid range boat? You own one. Did you find where they cut corners, compromised on components, or used the best materials available with a highest level of fit and finish. I owned one, but I told you what I thought.

Since quality is subjective, there's no right or wrong answers.

Mechanical Design Engineer turned Regional Sales Manager. What can I say?

It depends on where you want to set the bar. There are a lot of none production builders that would put any of those on your list in the entry-level category.

I'm happy with the "quality" of Grady. This is my third one. Each one has gotten a little better than the previous one. My only complaint with my latest one is that they could have put a little more effort into the wiring harness. Nothing wrong per say, but they could have done a little better job under the dash.

What year and model Grady did you have and what where your complaints?

 

[26aftcab454]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

listen to / look for post about the issues that concern you--if you see a number of negative remarks about a certain make or brand- there is your answer.

I have read few issues with the Wellcrafts but my opinion is biased!

 

[mj05]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

Fireman... very interesting! I thought the newer bayliners that i've seen looked pretty nice! I know most people here put the bayliner runabouts down and I was taking that into consideration. I had no idea that they made a jump in quality in the 90's.... that's great insight!

 

['96 Charger]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

I've been in quite a few bass boats in my day and here's my experience. Upper end of the ones I've been in are Ranger, Triton, and Champion. Mid-upper have included Stratos and Charger. Middle of road has been Skeeter, Nitro, Holiday, and Javelin. Lower end has been ProCraft and Hydrasports.

If I had an unlimited budget for a boat it would be a Champion with a 225hp vmax.

 

[allpoints360]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

I've been in quite a few bass boats in my day and here's my experience. Upper end of the ones I've been in are Ranger, Triton, and Champion. Mid-upper have included Stratos and Charger. Middle of road has been Skeeter, Nitro, Holiday, and Javelin. Lower end has been ProCraft and Hydrasports.

Thanks '96, That's exactly what I'm talking about! When you been in, on and around different boats for a long time, you KNOW the best from the rest.

I haven't spent much time on bass boats, so I would not have known that Champions were the best.

 

[dsiekman]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

It depends on where you want to set the bar. There are a lot of none production builders that would put any of those on your list in the entry-level category.

Well said. Also, I'm an architect, so I get your disclaimer about being an ME.

That said, I'm on my second Cobalt. Love 'em. Kevlar hull, overkill engineering, solid hardware, nice fit and finish, etc. However, a Hinckley it is not. As dingbat mentioned, we also have several top notch limited production/custom builders around here. Granted, I could never afford one, but if I could that's where I'd go. I would also put Tiara in the top tier. They make one heck of a tank. The new Chris Craft Corsair is pretty sweet, too, as is their new center console - I spent the weekend at the Annapolis Boat Show drooling over all the new stuff.

 

[paultjohnson]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

I consider my 86 thundercraft to be a high end boat {but I know in reality its closer to entry level} Ive had it for 20 yrs . Its been in the shop once for a new coupler when I bought it. The boat is still solid and tight The winshield, cleats, all the hardware is rock solid. It has NEVER not started, all the gauges and electronics have never failed. I have had the engine alignmet checked every 3-5 years, it has never had to be readjusted since Ive owned it. Of course is was set after new coupler was installed. That tells me the hull is well built. The woodwork and gelcoat still look great. It takes some elbow grease to keep it like that of course. I love it

 

[25thmustang]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

Of the two I spent a lot of time around and in...

My IMP seemed to be an entry/mid level boat. Some corner cutting in the build, but stuff I felt a lot of companies would have done.

My Cruisers seems to be a slightly better, probably middle of the road boat. Less corners cut than the IMP, and things seem to have held up better than worse. can't say I have been able to poke around in the competitors boats much though.

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

For me,
86 Bayliner Crapi, (yes I spelled it right) definate lower end of the low scale.
74 Starcraft O/B High end of the low end. Well built for its day.
84 Starcraft I/O Middle of the Mid range. Very well built for any day.

 

[mj05]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

I consider my 86 thundercraft to be a high end boat {but I know in reality its closer to entry level} Ive had it for 20 yrs . Its been in the shop once for a new coupler when I bought it. The boat is still solid and tight The winshield, cleats, all the hardware is rock solid. It has NEVER not started, all the gauges and electronics have never failed. I have had the engine alignmet checked every 3-5 years, it has never had to be readjusted since Ive owned it. Of course is was set after new coupler was installed. That tells me the hull is well built. The woodwork and gelcoat still look great. It takes some elbow grease to keep it like that of course. I love it

REALLY nice boat! Good job keeping it looking new!!

 

[allpoints360]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

Well said. Also, I'm an architect, so I get your disclaimer about being an ME.

That said, I'm on my second Cobalt. Love 'em. Kevlar hull, overkill engineering, solid hardware, nice fit and finish, etc. However, a Hinckley it is not. As dingbat mentioned, we also have several top notch limited production/custom builders around here. Granted, I could never afford one, but if I could that's where I'd go. I would also put Tiara in the top tier.

With deference to dingbat, he said that quality must be defined before we can use it as measurement even though most of the gurus deferred to the perception of the customer, save ISO, 6 Sigma, and possibly Crosby. So I think it's great that 25thmustang can say that Cruisers is a better quality build than IMP without any thought to Deming and Juran.

I also appreciate your thoughts on Tiara being high end. I had not heard that before. And Fireman said that Rinker had good fit and finish! Never heard that before, either. I'm still learning.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

Any year, any type, any length.

I'd steer clear of anything from the White Star Line...

 

[allpoints360]

Re: High End, Mid Range or Entry Level

For me,
86 Bayliner Crapi, (yes I spelled it right) definate lower end of the low scale.

Priceless.

Bifflefan, I was taking a drink when I read your post, and laughed, and snorted water through my nose. Just perfect. Thanks!