Honeycomb tansom core.

[V153]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

Here's a couple pics of 'tuff stuff': Note the added reinforcements aka 'shoeboxing'. Even with that, when finished the boat weighed 75-100lbs lighter than when it rolled out of the factory.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

One of my concerns with working with either 2 of these materials in a fiberglass boat would be how well resins and adhesives bond to it?

 

[V153]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

One of my concerns would be how well resins and adhesives bond to it

Like glue? Never had a problem with delamination. Poor example but the V153 was totalled in an encounter with a channel marker on a dark moonless night in March of '11. Catastrophic damage to the surrounding tissue but there was no delamination of the core.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

Will the deck be attached to the stringers and bulkheads? If so How?

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.


Hey guys,
Attached is some photos of yesterday's progress.

I have installed the first layers on the towing point. 200kg foam fibre glued into position. 2 layers of biax. How many layer would be needed? 6?

Drainage tube finished 90mm PVC pipe cut in half and coved n glass.

Rear floor panels cut and skinned. Curve bilge panel finish ready for coving.

Main floor panel joined and glassed.

I have included a photo of the bare honeycomb panel for those who asked.

The adhesion it not an issue to me as the glue works its way into the open cells to form a wedge lock as well. And when "decoring" holes for the bolt placements a flat blade could not separate the skin from the core without chiseling the bond between skin and core tube.

I plan to leave the stringer edges raw and fibre glue directly to all edges.
Cove and tape the outside. Then 2 full overlays of biax.

 

[beardeddone]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

View attachment 176702View attachment 176703View attachment 176704
Hey guys,
Attached is some photos of yesterday's progress.

I have installed the first layers on the towing point. 200kg foam fibre glued into position. 2 layers of biax. How many layer would be needed? 6?

Drainage tube finished 90mm PVC pipe cut in half and coved n glass.

Rear floor panels cut and skinned. Curve bilge panel finish ready for coving.

Main floor panel joined and glassed.

I have included a photo of the bare honeycomb panel for those who asked.

The adhesion it not an issue to me as the glue works its way into the open cells to form a wedge lock as well. And when "decoring" holes for the bolt placements a flat blade could not separate the skin from the core without chiseling the bond between skin and core tube.

I plan to leave the stringer edges raw and fibre glue directly to all edges.
Cove and tape the outside. Then 2 full overlays of biax.

Nice job

I would like to know if you'll make a list and post exactly what your using and what manufacturer your getting these materials from including the glue as you call it.

I still need to redo my transom and with seacast but if in the future I need to pull the top off my boat and redo the inners I want to know what to get, to bad you couldn't or wouldn't do a video explaining and showing all this as well.

With all the reading I have done on this honeycomb since you posted it seems as though this is the way to really go if it is cost effective although I still do have my reservations on using honeycomb for a transom as this is critical and can not fail but should be ok as well from what I am reading on this it has to be strong material.

Keep us posted, the more pics the better and I want to see the results of your workings...

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

my list of materials is mainly sourced from FGI austrailia.

15mm poly honeycomb. $75 per sheet
R180 epoxy 20L kit with slow hardener. $430
450gsm double bias e-glass from a private source boatbuilder. 57kg roll @ $5/kg. $285
West system 403 microfibres , glue powder. 4L bag $43. ( no where near enough will need 10L more.)
West system 411 filleting blend microspheres. 4L bag $45. See above.
Rayon jacket lining material. "Peel ply" from a local linen store. Picked a ugly colour that was never used. $1/m. 120m
Most other supplies I had in my shed from other projects.

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.



Progress update.

I have roughed in all stringers and bulkheads. Using a hot glue gun to hold in position.

The cap was put back into position and pop rivets placed loose into existing holes along the flange. Worked really well as a temporary method of holding the boat in position for stringers to be glassed.

Rear bilge area glassed. With curved bilge floor to drain easier.

I'm waiting on an order of filleting blend and fibre glue. So stringers are on hold until then.

I will start on other trimmings in the down time.

Seat boxes for my swivel seats and side pockets.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

Do you plan to use the honeycomb material for the decking too?

What type of floatation foam do you plan to use and how will it be installed?

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

The deck is already joined and glassed one side as per pics above.

10mm honeycomb.

The boat never had any floating foam. So it won't be going back in but the honeycomb is essentially a sheet of air bubbles. My calculations work out to be 150L of air just in the honeycomb cores.

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

The deck is already joined and glassed one side as per pics above.

10mm honeycomb.

The boat never had any flotation foam. So it won't be going back in, but the honeycomb is essentially a sheet of air bubbles. My calculations work out to be 150L of air just in the honeycomb cores.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

I think this is 1 of several pieces of cut to fit honeycomb, that's already had glass & epoxy applied to the downside..

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

The deck is already joined and glassed one side as per pics above.

10mm honeycomb.

The boat never had any flotation foam. So it won't be going back in, but the honeycomb is essentially a sheet of air bubbles. My calculations work out to be 150L of air just in the honeycomb cores.

I missed that one, sorry.

10 mm is 3/8", wouldn't have been my choice especially since there won't be any floatation foam below for support... but I hope it works for you.

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

Jigngrub the largest area unsupported is 400 x 1150. In the rear section. The front floor will have two seat boxes glassed to the floor.
I might consider a stiffener across the stringers in that area. ??? I'll think about that one.

Not much progress lately. Ran out of microspheres to cove with.

But test fitted flooring.

Built the seat boxes. Minus glass.

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

Ok I need some help.

I have just about run out of west system 403 filler. 1L left of Microfibres. And can't get any locally before Xmas.

I do have 10kg of q cells now. Will Qcells be good enough to use as general purpose glue filler for flooring and bulkheads etc.

Or should I attempt to mill down some Uni strands in a blender to make my own milled fibre blend???

Or do I mix the 1L of fibre I have left with say 2/3L of Qcells to make a watered down glue blend.

I plan to use qcells for coving etc. but I want a glue out of it as well.

Cheers guys let the Brainstorming begin. VVVVVVVVV

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

Jigngrub the largest area unsupported is 400 x 1150. In the rear section. The front floor will have two seat boxes glassed to the floor.
I might consider a stiffener across the stringers in that area. ??? I'll think about that one.

I'd add more bulkheads like the one you have in the middle of the boat, I'd space them 300 mm apart (12"), that should give you a fairly solid deck with the 10 mm material.

For the Q cells, I got this from the USComposites site:

Q-Cells
Inorganic hollow spheres added to resins that will allow for a smoother paste than glass bulbs. Can be used with polyesters or epoxies to fill surface holes and allow for easy sanding. Not for use below waterline. (Color: White)

If there's going to be water in your bilge you might be better off using something else.

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.



Major milestone out of the way. All stringers and bulkheads coved and glassed.
It took 8hrs over two nights to get it all down wet on wet.
Day time temps are 34 degree Celsius at the moment. Impossible to get a batch of resin to stay good in the pot.

Floor skin was trialled in position and there was minimal flex between stringers with my 90kg standing on it.
Max flex will be on firm land. When in the water this will be less.

A quick clean up of the bilge drains tomorrow then it's onto floor skins tomorrow night.

Seat boxes are glued together and are ready for interior glass.

Looking forward to testing my new flooring grip. A water based paint product called tredgrip. Oz product.
No primer needed straight onto fibreglass. Tested on some scrap and was difficult to remove after 6hrs let alone the 72 hrs recommended.

That is all for now. 5 days until deadline and still a fit out to be completed.

 

[beardeddone]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

View attachment 176949View attachment 176950View attachment 176951

Major milestone out of the way. All stringers and bulkheads coved and glassed.
It took 8hrs over two nights to get it all down wet on wet.
Day time temps are 34 degree Celsius at the moment. Impossible to get a batch of resin to stay good in the pot.

Floor skin was trialled in position and there was minimal flex between stringers with my 90kg standing on it.
Max flex will be on firm land. When in the water this will be less.

A quick clean up of the bilge drains tomorrow then it's onto floor skins tomorrow night.

Seat boxes are glued together and are ready for interior glass.

Looking forward to testing my new flooring grip. A water based paint product called tredgrip. Oz product.
No primer needed straight onto fibreglass. Tested on some scrap and was difficult to remove after 6hrs let alone the 72 hrs recommended.

That is all for now. 5 days until deadline and still a fit out to be completed.

I tend to agree with jigngrub in adding more bulkheads like the one you have in the middle of the boat, I'd space them 300 mm apart (12"), that should give you a fairly solid deck with the 10 mm material, other then that I would really like to see the results and to bad I probably won't live long enough to see this down the road as time goes on as not to many proven done this way other then Commercially and even those haven't had the time tested to be reliable and cost effective in manufacturing as most of us older folks haven't got another 10-50 years left for the results..With that said you may have started a whole new process of repairing rotten wood who knows..

 

[Rip it up]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

I know that more bulkheads would make it flat like an ice rink. But I'm matching/bettering what was originally install. 4mm Masonite. Glass on top only. Imagine how much that would flex. To install bulkheads every 12" or 300 would make 11 bulkheads. 1200 wide.

I'm just going to do some maths.

Two layers of glass. Average 1200x150mm. X 450gsm.
1.2x.15x22x.450=1.78kg of glass. =1.78kg resin. Plus coving.
Some approx 10% of my epoxy drum. @$450/drum. =$45 in epoxy

All of this for a floor that without the extra bulkheads flexes a little bit. I mean 1-2mm. Without glueing to stringers or the 2x layers of 450gsm over the top yet. I think I can live without the extra bulkheads.

We are talking about a rebuild on a knock about fishing boat here not a 60ft performance racing yacht.
This boat gets pushed deep into the mangrove systems chasing mudcrabs most of its life. So a flat floor is the least of its worries.


I understand where you guys are coming from with the structural engineering but think it could be overkill for this project.

Cheers

 

[beardeddone]

Re: Honeycomb tansom core.

I hope your a big guy cause if your not, don't plan on taking any friends that weight 350lbs on your boat as they might step through your deck if it already flexes for you..Just saying....