I may have bit off more than I can chew!

crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Alright now maybe this could clear a few of your questions and change the overall estimate everyone is giving me.
First off I was able to take the boat to the marina today while on its way to my brothers to work on it there and had it looked at by the professionals. The stringers are fine. What I cut out that was rotted wood was simply the wall around the fuel cell and the adjoining foam and engine bulkhead. So with that said here are some final material sizes and what I plan on doing with them.

First is the engine bulkhead. That needs to be 7'x12" at its widest of 3/4" marine grade plywood. Cut first and dry fit. Seemed on bottoms with woven strip 6-10 inch wide. Capped with a good quality 2x2 or similar size on both sides then wrapped from the side over the top to the other side to seal it.

Second will be the fuel cell area. Again with 3/4" marine grade cut approximately 6'x12". Bonded to hull with the same strips as bulkhead and capped and covered in the same fashion. At this time I will be attempting to measure out good seating positions and trying to figure out some floor storage options. I need enough space for bumpers on both sides at a minimum but enough room for 4 per side would be ideal. Not that I carry that many but it should allow me bumper storage on one side and misc junk on the other.

Step three for me will be laying out the flooring starting at the front because I believe if I start there the first seam should be behind the drivers seat mounting pedestal and not directly under it(I hope). Now that seam is up to change if anyone has advice otherwise? After all flooring is fitted then out it comes and straight to the garage for waterproofing by sealing first with Thompsons, dry time, covered top and bottom with a light duty fiberglass mat. I will probably use a 1.5oz or lighter mat for this because I don't see or have heard a reason for more so chime in if I'm wrong.

Lastly for this season will be foaming. I have yet to get an idea of how to figure this cost and quantity out so someone speak up!

Now as far as cost goes... I read the PDF from Woodonglass and cant really see much more of what he has listed and probably more than I need in reality so here is me list of materials with some of the prices I have found and some that where given to me by my buddy at the marina.
5 sheets 3/4" Marine grade plywood at $89.99 a sheet = $449.95
I'm going to start with 10 gallons of resin at $49.99 a gallon = $499.99
Chopped strand mat I can find on places like ebay ranging from $90 a roll of woven to $200 a roll of 1.5oz 280ft long so I'm adding $400 to the tally.
Total in wood resin and Glass mats should be about $1400. Now I have been told that my buddy at the marina is going to help me reduce that cost by letting me have some of what he can sell me at jobber pricing so the more I save the more that can be thrown at an interior when the time comes.

Now some of you may still be scratching your heads at my math but since this is new to me to figure out your going have to let me know where my math is flawed! Remember though I don't need to replace everything! Only bout 21 board feet of bulkhead and fuel cell box/floor support and then cover a flooring with the rest. Oh, and foam it all!!!
 

Woodonglass

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

That's a horse of a different color. I think you'll be able to get by with 15-20 yds of 1.5 oz CSM and I would not use anything lighter than that. You will need either some yardage of 1708 Biaxial cloth or some 12" 1708 tape to do the stringers and bulkheads with. I did not see that in your figures.
 

crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

That's a horse of a different color. I think you'll be able to get by with 15-20 yds of 1.5 oz CSM and I would not use anything lighter than that. You will need either some yardage of 1708 Biaxial cloth or some 12" 1708 tape to do the stringers and bulkheads with. I did not see that in your figures.

Thanks for that good news! Another good news is that today I called my local lumber yard and can pick up the 3/4" marine plywood for $75 a sheet!! WOO HOO! he's got 4 left and I'm taking them today!
 

crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Quick question.... Staple or screw the deck down and why? What size staples or screws?
 

chconger

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

"Quick question.... Staple or screw the deck down and why? What size staples or screws?"

Screw.

Because you will want to pre-drill the holes, pour epoxy in the hole, then run the screw in. That way its sealed, and water will not find its way into your stringer from the deck via the fasteners.

With staples there is no opportunity to do that, and water can run down your staple into your stringer. Rot follows along soon enough.

Cheers
Chris
 

chconger

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

What size screw? I think what ever gives you 3/4 to 1 inch into the stringer. Number 8 stainless. Robertson head is the best (but I am not sure if you can get them in the states).
 

Woodonglass

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Yeah chconger's right. When you predril make sure and do it correctly. You drill twice. First time you drill with a bit thats 1/16" smaller than the screw thread and drill to depth. Second time you drill with a bit 1 /32 larger than the screw shank and only drill the depth of the deck material. This way the thread only bite into the stinger and NOT into the deck. I too like to use epoxy for coating the screws.
 

crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

But if I am covering the deck with fiberglass why would I still need to seal the screws? They'll be under the fiberglass or is that not the right way?
 

jbcurt00

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Small effort = better protection, so why not ;)
 

sevanseriesta

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Is there any rule of thumb about how far apart to place the screws?
 

Woodonglass

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

6-8". You can use the "Deck Screws" that are sold at Lowe's and Home Depot to build outside Decks. When you seal em in Epoxy they'll last a lifetime. They have excellent Bite for Plywood too! Better than Stainless IMHO!!!:D
 

crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Where do I get resin cheap? I ordered some fiberglass off eBay (8oz) pretty cheap ($50 for 50"x30') but can't seem to find the resin cheap? And is there really any difference in the "marine" grade and the stuff I've always used on cars and other projects? I know there's polyester and epoxy but I'm kind of missing some education intthis area.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

What's the 8oz fiberglass for?
 

crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Well its a pretty tight weave so I was thinking, and any input is appreciated, of using it as the top layer on the floor after all other layup is done bit since I have so much I was also going to use it in strips for the corners of my floor supports and around the storage boxes I plan on building. First thing first for me right now is the roughing in of the fuel cell walls that support the floor and the bulkhead so I can take them back out to resin up and seal. That's one of my concerns with finding resin at a economical price. I did find some on ebay today that intrigued me and the price was reasonable. Has anyone used this product before?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230727053885?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

The price is definitely in the affordable range!

This stuff also is on my watch list so I would like some input on it as well.

Epoxy Resin Gallon Kit 10lb Kit Clear | eBay
 

Woodonglass

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

I'm getting confused. I thought you were going to use Polyester Resin. Now you are saying your're going to buy and use Epoxy and 8 oz cloth/Fabric? Why did you switch? If you used to work on fiberglassing cars, I'm pretty sure you were using Poly and not epoxy.
 

jbcurt00

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Wait, earlier you planned to use POLY resin @ $49/gal, now you've linked epoxy resin.

What product are you using? The 8oz cloth may be sufficient w/ epoxy. Likely not w/ poly............
confused.gif


EDIT: WOG's got the same Q ^^^
 
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crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

I'm getting confused. I thought you were going to use Polyester Resin. Now you are saying your're going to buy and use Epoxy and 8 oz cloth/Fabric? Why did you switch? If you used to work on fiberglassing cars, I'm pretty sure you were using Poly and not epoxy.

Yes, poly resin is what I have used in the past and might use again but since Epoxy is stronger I was tossing the numbers around to see if it was in my budget.

As for the cloth. Well it was a shot in the dark really and at the price and quantity I know I can use it for the top cover on the floor in large almost seamless sections and still have left over for the other areas. Granted I will more than likely still need more and I'm currently thinking that I have about 45-50 linear feet of area to be bonded to the hull. Now if I get a woven bi axial mat or strip at about a 10-15 oz weight that should be covered.

So that's the 8oz for the floor cover in which I have 30 feet of at 50 inches wide and the floor to be covered is only 11 feet by about 7 1/2 feet so I will have approximately a single 10 foot length left.
Now, the fuel cell box will be resin coated 3/4" marine plywood, 7 foot by 1 foot walls X2 for 28 square feet of resin coverage first before bonding onto the floor. Then another single 7'x29" panel for the box floor itself so about 14 square feet.
The rear bulkhead measures about 7 feet by 18 inches and tapered to match the hull contour so that sould be another 14 square feet of resin first.
Once those pieces dry they can be glassed onto the hull.
After that I will try to find a different sheet or roll of fiberglass that I can use to wrap all of that area in to give it a good seal and added strength.
Then I can take the floor panels which will have been test fitted by that point and resin coated as well and install them onto that substructure. Drill my holes for foaming. Pour foam. Prep the floor for the 8oz mat and resin that down and I should be set for this seasons work. I wont have the funds to carpet and finish out the interior till late in the fall so those I can measure out and design then build inside and install in the boat by spring.

Now, if any of that plan sounds like I'm off my rocker or that I'm missing a step or something PLEASE let me know!
I think this is exactly how I've seen others do their jobs so I think I'm on track right?

I'm open to Epoxy or Poly resin Because of the fact that this is all just floor support structure and not the stringers themselves. And WAY more solid than the factory even attempted to do! The fuel cell was not covered top to bottom and only had a single layer of roving strip about 6" wide to secure it to one side of the hull and then attached to the fuel cell box floor instead of to the hull on its other side! Once I pulled out that panel under the tank all that was left was the 1" of roving that held the wall up on the outboard sides! All the foam under the fuel cell got water logged and that allowed water to creep up the wood sides. That's how I see it anyways. I'm sure even after 26 years this boat no matter how well it was cared for would have still had a bad structure at that wall. I guess you could imagine it this way, I am building a bulkhead and then 2 additional "stringers" in the boat that will also form a box for the fuel cell and add substructure for a solid floor to be installed. Again, am I that far off in my way of doing this project?
 

Lwarden

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Where do I get resin cheap? I ordered some fiberglass off eBay (8oz) pretty cheap ($50 for 50"x30') but can't seem to find the resin cheap? And is there really any difference in the "marine" grade and the stuff I've always used on cars and other projects? I know there's polyester and epoxy but I'm kind of missing some education intthis area.
Ive found Poly resin at my local home depot, 3M/Bondo brand for $35.00 a gal, they only carry it in 1gal cans but 5 gals= $185.00 cheapest Ive found it in bulk/5 gal pails is $165.00 and I have to go pick it up 40 miles away. So for the $20 savings its worth it to me. Crazy you need to check with Eastpointe Fiberglass the guy there is really cool and said he'll match prices for the most part, if youd like we can go there together and split gas, I live in Fenton so I could meet ya some where when your ready. Im about ready to buy my bulk Glass matt and resin myself and Ill get it from him more than likely....Lee
 

crazymofo

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

Hey! A fellow Michigander! I actually got of the phone with a guy over in Harrison township this morning and that guy was AWESOME! After speaking to him for about 10 mins just about all my questions were answered and then gave me his cell number and told me to start sending him pics while I was working on it today if I had any more questions! That's a guy I'm going to have to send some business to soon! He also told me about Eastpointe Fiberglass and I rushed over there only to find them closed for the weekend. Luckily I live in Lake Orion but work in Detroit so I can stop by on my way home from work on Monday to get the resin I need.

Lwarden, I would love to go in on some supplies so just PM me and we can swap phone numbers and maybe even help each other out on repairs!
 

Lwarden

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Re: I may have bit off more than I can chew!

The East Point Fiberglass guy is usually open on Saturdays till 1:00 unless he knows your coming!
 
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