It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

BLU LUNCH

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This is unbelievable, I know the kids father from another forum, please read and read the kids help site...........



NEWARK, Del. ? Finding character witnesses when you are 6 years old is not easy. But there was Zachary Christie last week at a school disciplinary committee hearing with his karate instructor and his mother?s fianc? by his side to vouch for him.

Zachary?s offense? Taking a Cub Scout utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school. He was so excited about joining the Scouts that he wanted to use it at lunch. School officials concluded that he had violated their zero-tolerance policy on weapons, and Zachary now faces 45 days in the district?s reform school.

?It just seems unfair,? Zachary said, pausing as he practiced writing lower-case letters with his mother, who is home-schooling him while the family tries to overturn his punishment.

Spurred in part by the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings, many school districts around the country adopted zero-tolerance policies on the possession of weapons on school grounds. More recently, there has been growing debate over whether the policies have gone too far.

But, based on the code of conduct for the Christina School District, where Zachary is a first grader, school officials had no choice. They had to suspend him because, ?regardless of possessor?s intent,? knives are banned.

But the question on the minds of residents here is: Why do school officials not have more discretion in such cases?

?Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously,? said Debbie Christie, Zachary?s mother, who started a Web site, helpzachary.com, in hopes of recruiting supporters to pressure the local school board at its next open meeting on Tuesday. ?He is not some sort of threat to his classmates.?

Still, some school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.

?There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife,? said George Evans, the president of the Christina district?s school board. He defended the decision, but added that the board might adjust the rules when it comes to younger children like Zachary.

Critics contend that zero-tolerance policies like those in the Christina district have led to sharp increases in suspensions and expulsions, often putting children on the streets or in other places where their behavior only worsens, and that the policies undermine the ability of school officials to use common sense in handling minor infractions.

For Delaware, Zachary?s case is especially frustrating because last year state lawmakers tried to make disciplinary rules more flexible by giving local boards authority to, ?on a case-by-case basis, modify the terms of the expulsion.?

The law was introduced after a third-grade girl was expelled for a year because her grandmother had sent a birthday cake to school, along with a knife to cut it. The teacher called the principal ? but not before using the knife to cut and serve the cake.

In Zachary?s case, the state?s new law did not help because it mentions only expulsion and does not explicitly address suspensions. A revised law is being drafted to include suspensions.

?We didn?t want our son becoming the poster child for this,? Ms. Christie said, ?but this is out of control.?

In a letter to the district?s disciplinary committee, State Representative Teresa L. Schooley, Democrat of Newark, wrote, ?I am asking each of you to consider the situation, get all the facts, find out about Zach and his family and then act with common sense for the well-being of this child.?

Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.

?The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,? said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

Other school districts are also trying to address problems they say have stemmed in part from overly strict zero-tolerance policies.

In Baltimore, around 10,000 students, about 12 percent of the city?s enrollment, were suspended during the 2006-7 school year, mostly for disruption and insubordination, according to a report by the Open Society Institute-Baltimore. School officials there are rewriting the disciplinary code, to route students to counseling rather than suspension.

In Milwaukee, where school officials reported that 40 percent of ninth graders had been suspended at least once in the 2006-7 school year, the superintendent has encouraged teachers not to overreact to student misconduct.

?Something has to change,? said Dodi Herbert, whose 13-year old son, Kyle, was suspended in May and ordered to attend the Christina district?s reform school for 45 days after another student dropped a pocket knife in his lap. School officials declined to comment on the case for reasons of privacy.

Ms. Herbert, who said her son was a straight-A student, has since been home-schooling him instead of sending him to the reform school.

The Christina school district attracted similar controversy in 2007 when it expelled a seventh-grade girl who had used a utility knife to cut windows out of a paper house for a class project.

Charles P. Ewing, a professor of law and psychology at the University at Buffalo Law School who has written about school safety issues, said he favored a strict zero-tolerance approach.

?There are still serious threats every day in schools,? Dr. Ewing said, adding that giving school officials discretion holds the potential for discrimination and requires the kind of threat assessments that only law enforcement is equipped to make.

In the 2005-6 school year, 86 percent of public schools reported at least one violent crime, theft or other crime, according to the most recent federal survey.

And yet, federal studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and another by the Department of Justice show that the rate of school-related homicides and nonfatal violence has fallen over most of the past decade.

Educational experts say the decline is less a result of zero-tolerance policies than of other programs like peer mediation, student support groups and adult mentorships, as well as an overall decrease in all forms of crime.

For Zachary, it is not school violence that has left him reluctant to return to classes.

?I just think the other kids may tease me for being in trouble,? he said, pausing before adding, ?but I think the rules are what is wrong, not me.?
 

lowkee

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

I feel for the kid. I used to carry a folding pocket knife in school. Dare I say, it was used many times.. and none of them to threaten or injure people. Heck, the swiss army knife (or a leatherman) used to be a staple, something most men carried on a regular basis, and now you can get arrested walking into a post office with one.

Honestly, that kid is likely 100x's better off being home schooled anyhow.
 

JB

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

It is too bad. I have read of persons arrested for "concealed weapon" because they had a folding pen knife in their pocket. It seems to me that there must be a way to discriminate between a pointed, sharp knife that could actually harm someone, and a blunt eating utensil.

We have a problem with your post, Blu Lunch, because one of your links is a solicitation and the other includes that same link. Technically, solicitation is against our rules. Please try to find a way to tell the story without including the request for political action.

EDIT: Thanks, BL. Now we can get the story and discuss it without political implications.
 

BLU LUNCH

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

Sorry JB I removed the link it's just a story now, look it's all over the national news...........
 

j_martin

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

The inmates are in charge of the asylum.

When I was young, I always had a pocket knife. It was used to whittle, open envelopes, pick my teeth, and once to defend a little girl from a dog attack.

I would carry a rifle through town for a mile and a half to get out of town to go hunting. That wasn't considered unusual at all.

What was unusual was for anyone to be attacked with a gun or a knife, much less hurt or killed by one. Now that's on the daily news.

All that said, the conclusion is that the rules are often stupid. However, if you wish to be in a situation (school) that has (stupid) rules, you have to comply to the (stupid) rules or there are consequences.

just my 02
John
 

SuzukiChopper

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

I'm sorry to hear what is happening to the boy. I wasn't going to post but when I thought about it, this story stirred up some emotions and I need to vent.

First off the kid sometimes wears a suit and tie to school. He does this to make himself look professional and he's 6 years old?!?! Where is the discretion of the school board?? He's also a member of a dojo, learning karate, they may as well expel him permanently because HIS HANDS are weapons!!

I just don't understand and can't comprehend why these kinds of policies are in place and why time, energy and resources were even waisted to implement them. They're turning schools in to jails. But wait, people get killed/injured in jail all the time and they have a zero tolerance for weapons. Huuuuhhhh?!?! Exactly, people that have thoughts of ill intentions towards another person are going to do whatever they're going to do anyways. A pencil or pen can just as easily kill someone as a knife or gun FFS. I just think of a scenario where a kid brings a gun to a school that doesn't have a metal detector/screening for EVERY kid that walks in, hides it in his locker until lunch hour and then opens fire and ultimately takes his own life.... what good is that policy? It'll happen one way or another. All the policy is doing is punishing people who don't deserve to be punished because there is ZERO discretion allowed by the people enforcing the policy. By the way, does this mean that there is going to no longer be woodworking class or shop class? TONS of weapons in those.

Anyways, I'll get off my soap box now and just hope that some day kids can be kids again. Maybe some day soon that twig that fell off the tree kids run around with can be free of worry from jail time too.
 

cheburashka

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

I just don't understand and can't comprehend why these kinds of policies are in place and why time, energy and resources were even waisted to implement them.

I'm sure you can understand exactly why these kinds of policies are in place.

As always, there's a difference between a well-intended and useful policy that is poorly implemented, and a useless policy. Look at B of A's ban on political statements in its median strip. Good rule, right? Who wants to go to a bank with radical political statements posted on the lawn? Then you get some dope who manages a B of A and decides that the flag is a political statement. Dumb rule? No. Dumb manager.

My son is in elementary school, and is subject to the same rules. First off, I make sure he knows the rules. I don't pat him down every morning, but I'm well assured that his pocket knife is not in his pocket. I can tell you that I'm glad that no other kids are carrying knives in that school. I like the rule.

I would hope that if my son accidentally brought a knife to school that the administrators there would find some kind of compromise so he wouldn't need to be suspended, but again that has to do with how the rule is implemented.

Long story short, it's crazy to think that kids should be allowed to bring knives to school in this day and age, so the rule is a good one. And yes, the "utensil" in question contained a 4" long penknife--not a butter knife. I can think of a lot of kids at my son's school who, if they had a tool like that, would raise some havoc.
 

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SuzukiChopper

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

I'm sure you can understand exactly why these kinds of policies are in place..... *snip* .....I can tell you that I'm glad that no other kids are carrying knives in that school. I like the rule.

This is my point. I can see why they ATTEMPT to have these rules but at the same time how do you KNOW other kids aren't bringing knives to school? Just because a teacher, nurse, administrator doesn't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. It's just a blindfold to make people feel better about themselves and life. I have a friend that carries a switchblade pocket knife everywhere he goes. Switchblade knives here are illegal on their own, a concealed weapon even more so. Spend a day with him and you'd never know he had it until he had to defend himself using it. Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. This is the basis to my frustration and my opinion only but just because there is a rule in place, and you don't see the rule being broken doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That and the fact that most people don't want to get involved when they see a rule/law being broken so they never say anything.
 

Bronc Rider

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

When I was in high school they replaced all the silverware with plastic "spork" utensils (the thing that looks like a spoon and fork combined). The gang problems were really bad at the time and they were afraid the kids would eventually stab each other with the metal knifes.
The following year a major gang fight broke out. The kids started getting those sporks and breaking off the spoon part. Then they started stabbing each other with them. Many of us that had nothing to do with the fight also were stabbed. I personally had to pull out a spork handle from my forearm that was about 1.5" deep. The fight was eventually stopped by the swat team when they decided to tear gas us.
My point is that kids/criminals will use anything they have, even if it?s not a weapon. When it really comes to it, I?m glad they didn?t have real knifes.
 

rbh

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

So the kid went to school with a cub scout kfs set "KSPORK", but I ask myself whats more dangerous, pen/pencil stabing, erasure shoved up your nose :eek: metal edged ruler to the knuckles, running with scissors or my favourite, elastic band launching a paper clip.
and these PPand S are allowed and required.
rob
 

drewmitch44

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

Ok its like I heard in a debate earlier, Fire the teachers and staff of the school for having their tire Irons in their trunks. That is more of a weapon than that little think that kid had! If the staff parks on school grounds then they are in violation of the same rule. Also suspend the girls softball team as well. I saw a few of them walking around with bats! Those bats are a weapon also. So how is a zero tolerance rule supposed to work in cases like this? It is all about interpretation of the rule. You need to use common sense interpret what is a weapon and what is not. This rule is stupid and if I lived in that area I would be there asking who is in charge.
 

JustJason

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

I read this story yesterday. It's sad and it's nothing but a case of CYA and pure laziness.

Zero tolerance anything is a rule made because people either do not want to, or are incapable of actually having DISCRETION.

ZT in a school means a principle does not get to (or have to)make a decision using discretion, the school comitee has already made the choice for him by passing a ZT rule. (CYA) But the problem is, thats where it stops. There is no formal avenue to defend ones self other than petitioning, calling the local news, making a spectacle out of nothing, etc.

What school comittees need to do is meet themselves, or form a disciplinary panel that meets at a predetermined time to sort these issues out. Much like a supreme court would.
If you live in a very rural area with little issues, if need be, the panel could be on call or meet once a week or something like that. If you were a inner city new york school, you may have to meet twice a week. But its laziness, and its much easier to pass a ZT rule even if that means punishing 6 year olds for boy scout untensils.

The problem with rules is that they are easy to make and very hard to undo.
 

JB

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

In ancient times (1940s) I wore a 6" double edged Case knife on my belt and had a 4" Case folding knife in a pocket on the side of my boot. . .to school. I never carried a gun to school, but one of my classmates, Julian Covington, often parked his ancient 20ga shotgun in the coatroom so he could collect dinner for his family on the way home. Julian also came to school barefoot year 'round, but that is a story for another time.

My point is that we have become an overpopulated culture behaving exactly as rats do when crowded into a too small cage. They change from a cooperative society to a competitive society and begin to kill each other.
 

lowkee

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

JB, that has to be the most elequently made overpopulation argument ever. I'll have to remember that analogy.
 

Knightgang

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

I feel bad for the kid, but I can understand where he is comming from and the reaction of the parents. That said, I am glad that in our area, there ae some that will utilize common sense.

Last year, my three boys each got a small swiss army knife from a Royal Ambassador campout for doing some volunteer help. They are the small ones like you put on your keyring. One of the boys was excited and took it to school without our knowledge. A classmate told the teacher and she asked him about it. She took the knife and gave it to our freind that works at the school and brought them home everyday. The next morning I went to the school and thanked here for her use of discretion. She said that being the child he was and when she saw the knife had Royal Ambassador imprinted on it, should could not bear to see somehting happen to him. She knew he had no eveil motives. I was so greatful and he got a good scolding from me...
 

Bob_VT

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

Many years ago when the term "zero tolerance" was being tossed around it was during the Reagan years and it was based on drug smuggling ..... any vessel that was found to have drugs aboard was impounded ..... there was a cartoon in the newspaper that showed the USS Enterprise carrier being towed in by a tiny USCG boat..... a crew member has a marijuana joint so the entire ship was impounded :eek:

I agree with the school rules however there must be some "wiggle" room here...... I just can not see this punishment fit to the "crime"
 

thedukeryan

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Re: It?s a Fork, It?s a Spoon, It?s a ... Weapon?

Stories like this make me wanna puke. I graduated hs in 1999 and my senior year hunter safety was offered. They allowed us to keep a bow in the gym for daily archery practice and then towards the end we all went out for a day of shooting at the range and where given permission to bring our rifles/shotguns. I remember one kid brought a rifle into class for a informative presentation. Never was a big deal. I know MANY good old boy farmers who kept shotguns in their trucks and it was more or less a don't ask don't tell policy. You wouldn't think twice about seeing a shotgun in a truck rack. Now days many people flip out at the idea that the school not only allows this but encourages students to enroll in it. Guns, knives etc are tools. When used correctly they can do a lot of good and when used incorrectly they can do a lot of bad. I think these things should be reviewed on a individual basis. I always carried a pocket knife throughout high school and no one cared. For this case worse they should of done is given him a strict warning and made his parents come retrieve the item. The whole suspension thing is a sick joke. I will give props to the mom though. Seems like she is really fighting for him. Either way I am sure the kid will turn out just fine in the long run.
 
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