Just went Synthetic

Forktail

Ensign
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Messages
977
Re: Just went Synthetic

Sludge really isn't an issue with most of today's modern quality motor oils.<br /><br />The Toyota sludge problem is well known, and is the result of an engine design flaw.<br /><br />Sludge isn't necessarily related to thermal break-down of the oil. Plain and simple, sludge is caused by contaminates. Modern detergent oils (dino or synthetic) suspend the contaminates so they don't settle onto the engine, forming sludge. When the oil becomes saturated with contaminate particles, new particles settle out of the oil and on to the engine parts, and form the sludge. <br /><br />Synthetics don't prevent the contaminates from forming, however they my marginally suspend more contaminate particles, but not enough to prolong change intervals much. This is why it is important to follow the engine makers change interval, regardless of the oil used (or at least install a bypass filtrations system to help). IMO, any benefits of using a synthetic oil which may suspend more contaminates, is lost by extending the drain interval. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.<br /><br />IMO, the reason you see more sludge around the valve springs and valleys is because, as you say, the oil doesn't move much there. And these are prime spots for the contaminates, which can't remain suspended in the oil, to settle out. I don't believe it's a temperature issue, however I will acknowledge that excessive temperatures on oil can deplete the detergents and additives in any oil quicker. But engines, their specified change intervals, and modern oils have virtually eliminated sludge concerns.<br /><br />BTW, if you want to split sludge hairs, I would recommend staying away from naphthenic-based oils, which are more likely to form sludge due to their lower breakdown resistance. I can't remember the last time I saw one of those though.
 

quantumleap

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Messages
813
Re: Just went Synthetic

I have a question for whomever: on a scale of 1 to 10, rate the degree of 2 cycle outboard smoke production for straight petro, synth. blend, and full synthetic with 10 representing petro oils. Also do you feel that the lesser degree of smoke production in sythetics out weigh the lessened degree of corrosion protection for extended periods of storage (as in several weeks to months).
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Just went Synthetic

Quantumleap:<br /><br />I would say that the reduction in smoke would be about 25% in a blend, and about 50-75% in a full synthetic.<br /><br />All Synthetic manufacturers claim to have anti corrosion additives for off season, I do not know when the tests were done or who did them to see if synthetics do not in fact protect against corrosion as well as regular oils durring the off season. Im going to do tests myself, but Im unsure as to the validity of a test done the way I am going to do it and others have done it. Seeing that the cylinders and such are inside an engine durring the off season and not out in the weather. Who has the resorces to take four or five identical engines, run them with different oils and store them for a lenth of time in a climate such as Florida and then take them apart and see how they look? Any engine should be winterized durring the off season if you live in those climates anyway, and I would have a hard time being convinced that any engine anywhere would have a corrosion problem in just a couple of months with any oil!
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Just went Synthetic

From what I understand the color of the regular oil changes to black because the additives oxidize, not because of dirt or contaminants.<br /><br />Lubedude, they make pieces of metal made of different materials for corrosion testing. They are called corrosion coupons. You can do a 30 day test and extrapolate the numbers.<br /><br />Ken
 

quantumleap

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Messages
813
Re: Just went Synthetic

Thanks L.D., the rededuced smoke is a very appealing aspect of switching. I just filled my injection tank with a blend. I'll see if that makes enough of a difference and may try one tank of full as a comparison. I could always go back to the blend for the last tank of the season for protection, but don't really like the idea of switching back and forth that often although I'm sure the motor doesn't know the difference.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Just went Synthetic

Lubedude,<br /><br />Why do synthetics give less smoke?<br /><br />P.S. I too am a hardheaded debater like forktail. I was always in trouble asking things like "how do they get the teflon to stick to the pan". I also am sort of a chemist and like to know how these things work.<br /><br />Ken
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Just went Synthetic

Originally posted by kenimpzoom:<br />Lubedude,<br /><br />Why do synthetics give less smoke?<br /><br />Ken
I think the answer to that one is easy enough, Synthetics burn cleaner. or maybe they dont exhale!
 

Terry H

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 25, 2001
Messages
1,862
Re: Just went Synthetic

I been watchin this and I guess I gotta post the results of the only time I ever used twc3 synthetic. I was salmanoidin in the Sacramento River last fall and knew I would be trollin for a couple of days in California so I used the Pennzoil at 2%. The motor ran fine, didn't notice any diference until I got home and parked the boat and found a quart of milky goo on the driveway. Thinking it was the l/u I drained and found milk so took it off and lo and behold...the entire leg was full of goo. I cleaned it out and went back to Yamalube and she has bean fine. Now then, the motor does run cold, there's not tstat so that may be the explanation. I'm not again synthetic oil, but the hype got me on that one, and the cost will prevent me from using in my omc v4's...unless it'll stop the smokin at startup...just some Thoughts
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Just went Synthetic

Am I reading this right? You used a TCW-3 synthetic engine oil for a breif period and your lower unit oil was contaminated?? This is a Joke "right"???? :confused:
 

Terry H

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 25, 2001
Messages
1,862
Re: Just went Synthetic

LD...the reason for removing the l/u was that I thought that I had contamination in the gearbox...which turned out only to be a vent screw gasket...it's a 25" motor by the way.<br />What I found when I removed the leg is about a gallon of fresh oil/water mixture in the leg itself...from the exhaust. I've had that motor for 20 years and resealed the gearcase twice and replaced waterpump numerous times...never have I seen such a mess. I don't think it did any harm, the motor has been run since and is fine, but the exhaust must have been spitting a lot of this sludge into the upper Sacto...and choking the out end of the motor as well. As i stated previously this motor runs real cool...and that may have been the problem.<br />I can't tell you if it smoked any less than normal for a couple of reasons...it was combat fishing, with lots of other boats...and it was a little foggy. I don't plan on using synthetic motor oil at this time...but I'm always open minded(well as much as an I can be), someday the hype will go away and some real proof will come along...just some Thoughts
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Just went Synthetic

OK, I understand now, but I cant imagine what would have caused this to happen, It had to be some coincidence as Ive never heard of this before, Anyone else have an idea on this issue?
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Just went Synthetic

A fishing friend of mine has twin 130 Yamaha Saltwaters and both exhausts were 75% plugged at 700 hrs. He trolls a lot and uses Yamaha oil. My guess is the motors have approx 500 trolling hrs. and 200 cruise hrs. This is the only time I've heard of this happening to an outboard. <br /><br />If your engine is running cold be sure to decarbonize often. A cold motor will build up deposits quickly in bad places. A good way to burn a piston or break a ring.
 

Terry H

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 25, 2001
Messages
1,862
Re: Just went Synthetic

BillP...cause I use this motor for trollin, I decarb quite often with Sea Foam...never had the leg clog up like that before I used synthetic, and I don't think I used but 3-4 gallons of fuel...thanks for the reminder on the decarb, it's time to do it again...thanks
 
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