Kids First Guitar, 11YO

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
My 11YO son has guitar in school this year and we are starting to look for an acoustic guitar for him, but not sure what's good or bad. I used to play bass guitar, but it's sooooo long ago, I don't even remember any cords :facepalm: (I'm not much help). We are looking for a basic acoustic guitar with nylon strings. I don't want to get him something that's going to be a total piece of junk, but it would be nice to find something in the $100 range, if that's possible.

What brand and models are decent? What should we check on the guitar to make sure it's going to play well, IE: neck not tweaked? What supplies will he need, tuner, extra strings, etc?

Thanks!

(Oh yeah, we live in Las Vegas, NV "pawn shop central" and if we could find a really nice used guitar, I would go that route.)
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Hi fisherdan. Congrats on having a budding musician in the family. I've been playing guitar (an other instruments) for over 20 years. There are quite a few other pickers here in the forums too. Good call on keeping his first guitar low budget and simple to play. The nylon strings will be much easier on his fingers. Unfortunately, unlike electric and acoustic guitars where brand names are much more prevalent and easier to research, nylon string guitars tend to be a little less so. Instead, kinda like old boats without a paper trail, you'll mostly just want to check the fundamentals. The strings should not buzz when tuned, the frets should not be worn, the tuning pegs should be firm and smooth, but not feel sticky and the glued seams and components of the guitar should still be smooth and intact and not separating in any way. Pawn shops are a great place to check as well as craigslist, or friends that may have old instruments laying around. I would also suggest getting an inexpensive chromatic tuner/metronome. I like a brand called Snark. They're only about $15 and you can get them at any Best Buy, or music store. They clip right on the head stock and allow you tune regardless of ambient noise by using a small, but bright color LED screen. That's really about it as far as the guitar goes. The rest will simply be a matter of practice, practice, practice. Thankfully, there are all kinds of teaching and learning aids that should keep him interested. You can spend many, many moons on youtube (and I have) checking out all of the guitar tutorials. I would've killed for that back in my day. Hope that helps. Holler if you have any more questions. I have guitaritis WAY more than tin boatitis :)
 

mommicked

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
1,700
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

I'm no expert, but I have played guitars for many years. I think nylon stringed guitars are easy on the fingers, but most of the cheap classical type ones have wider necks than accoustic guitars made for steel strings. If your son has big hands this might not matter but a narrower neck might be easyer, more comfortable, for him to learn cords w his young hands. As kfa43403 said you can find good deals in pawn shops if you look around and carefully check for damage or wear on the frets, and listen to the thing for buzzing or other off sounds.
 

Silly Seville

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
798
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Fishrdan,

I am going to opine in a way that I hope you (or others) do not take offense to.

I spent 15 years as a multi-instrumentalist, worked in the live music industry, have recorded in private studios for both myself and others, and have taught percussion, piano and guitar to 5-15 year old students. Please consider my experience when you read my responses.

The biggest mistake a parent makes when introducing a young person to a musical instrument, is trying to do it on the cheap. A cheap instrument will never behave in a way that is meaningful to the student. I could give you a laundry list of reasons to explain this, but I will expedite with the very important ones. A cheap stringed instrument does not hold tune for very long. This makes the learning experience terrible because the student becomes accustomed to hearing incorrect pitch/out of tune notes and that is a handicap that is very difficult to get over. It is important that a student learn harmonic tuning immediately! Electronic tuners are for lazy/hasty beginners and Pro's who are onstage and need to tune between songs. Learning the fundamentals is key to an enjoyable experience. Correct pitch, intonation, fretting and transitions are much more difficult to attain on a cheaply made guitar.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear; but the truth is, anything less than a $300 acoustic guitar is going to be of inferior quality, and subject to these, and more issues. I believe that you would be in the $500 range before quality really becomes apparent. You may want to look at the leader first and get a feel for what is quality. That of course would be Martin. After the sticker shock subsides, look at Taylor, Ovation, or Yamaha products. I have a friend in the biz who records with Taylor's exclusively, and I would recommend a gently used one as a starter. I would also advise against starting your son on a nylon stringed guitar, or an electric for a very simple reason. The "soft touch" of a nylon string or electric guitar does nothing to increase finger/hand strength or dexterity, and only serves to make it a more difficult transition to a steel stringed acoustic later on. Finger tip callouses come with the territory, so he might as well develop them now.

I know what you're thinking..."Gee, $300 to $500 is too much money for a kid who might not like the challenge and give up after several lessons." Well, you face the same dilemma that I have seen countless parents wring their hands over. The bottom line is, crappy instruments produce crappy results. You may not "hear" the difference while your child learns, but the child instinctively knows that something is not "right" when the sounds emanating from his guitar are less pleasing than those that come from his instructor's instrument. This is why any instructor worth his or her salt will advise a quality rental for your child while he makes up his mind about pursuing this musical endeavor.

As an example, if a parent brought in a "Wal-Mart" guitar to a lesson for Junior, I would dispatch it to the corner after the parent left, and teach the student on mine. There are $100 acoustic guitars being sold in toy store type environments that will NEVER hold a tune. I don't care if you gave Clapton, Page, Satriani, Beck, Richards or Santana one of these, THEY wouldn't be able to get through a song with it either. Why should your potential prodigy suffer the same embarrassment?

I could wax articulate about this for pages and pages, but I will leave you with just one more thing to consider for right now. Are YOU ready for your child to experience the awe of musicianship and the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes with a learned skill...or do you simply want him to try this like the newest video game that he will dispose of in a few weeks when he tires of it?

A meaningful education is never cheap, and the rewards are intrinsically proportional to the effort made. I wish you and your son the very best, and would be happy to elaborate on this and more if you would like to PM me.

Cheers!
 

Brewman61

Ensign
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
996
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Gotta agree with Seville on this. My parents stuck me with a cheap 6 string acoustic guitar when I was a beginner. Difficult to tune because of the crappy tuning machines. Neck was way off, strings were hard to press against the frets. Overall a miserable hunk o crap. Almost quit because of it.
Better to get a nice used good quality instrument than a cheap new one. It's night and day between good and cheap musical instruments, and the good ones hold their value so you might get a lot of your money back if you decide to sell.
When I could afford it, I bought a nicer Yamaha acoustic (made in Japan, not China) and still have that instrument today. It plays very nicely and sounds great. Was well worth the $200 or so that I paid back in the late 70's. You live in LV, so hop on down to the Gold and Sliver Pawn Shop, and see what you can talk "chumlee" out of!
 

Wind dog

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Messages
304
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Spot on Silly Seville cept we are talking acoustic, you mentioned only electric players (They play mostly electric) what about Tony Rice?:)
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I totally appreciate what you are saying Silly Seville, but here's the catch. He is going to be practicing on a nylon string classical guitar in school, the school recommends kids get a classical guitar to practice with and he will need to have a nylon string classical guitar for school concerts. At least that's what we have heard from the neighbor kids who have gone through guitar in school. The neighbor kids bought steel strung acoustic guitars later on, but they all have their nylon strung guitar too.

I think it would throw him off, going back and forth from an acoustic to and classical guitar while he's learning. Not so?
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

I agree. Stick with the nylon strings. They will be much easier on his fingers and it's what he'll be using at school. Consistency is key. It takes a certain degree of physical strength and dexterity to play a steel string and they're not the best to learn on. The quality of the guitar has nothing to do with the type of strings used. If anything, the nylon strings are "more correct/traditional". There are other reasons they use them in schools and in classical music too. They tend to have wider, flatter necks which encourage the beginner student to play with proper form. Never mind that fact that they sound great. All the classical guitar and flamenco music you hear is played on nylon string guitars. Besides good ol' Willie Nelson has been using his trusty nylon string for over 50 years and they're both going strong. Happy guitar hunting. Keep us posted.

Here's the sorta thing you're looking for. They should also have slightly smaller versions for kids, if he needs one.

800px-Classical_Guitar_labelled_english.jpg
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

[EDIT from above] He's not getting a nylon string classical guitar, even though the school "recommends" them.. I spoke to others who said you don't "have to" have a nylon stringed guitar for school.

The bad news? Well, it's one of those "ask a question and ignore the advise given" things here... (Sorry guys :facepalm:)

We went pawn shop hopping and stopped at 4 places that were close to our house. (There's just about one on every corner out here, ya know... LOL) Saw a lot of guitars that were hammered and finally settled on a Fender Starcaster acoustic that was in good condition, they threw in a padded gig bag, strap and picks all for the grand total of $60 out the door.

My son had one of his friends over who went through guitar last year, giving him some pointers and such. The other kid just bought a Fender acoustic for $180, I checked them both out and couldn't tell much of a difference in how they played, action seemed the same, maybe it's just that they are both in the same class of guitar. The new one was a lot prettier, but that's not really what I was concerned about.

Guess I'll need to start stop dropping into pawn shops to see if I can find him something nicer. (That's how I bought all my firearms, back when pawnshops could sell firearms...)
 

12vMan

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,536
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

[EDIT from above] He's not getting a nylon string classical guitar, even though the school "recommends" them.. I spoke to others who said you don't "have to" have a nylon stringed guitar for school.

The bad news? Well, it's one of those "ask a question and ignore the advise given" things here... (Sorry guys :facepalm:)

We went pawn shop hopping and stopped at 4 places that were close to our house. (There's just about one on every corner out here, ya know... LOL) Saw a lot of guitars that were hammered and finally settled on a Fender Starcaster acoustic that was in good condition, they threw in a padded gig bag, strap and picks all for the grand total of $60 out the door.

My son had one of his friends over who went through guitar last year, giving him some pointers and such. The other kid just bought a Fender acoustic for $180, I checked them both out and couldn't tell much of a difference in how they played, action seemed the same, maybe it's just that they are both in the same class of guitar. The new one was a lot prettier, but that's not really what I was concerned about.

Guess I'll need to start stop dropping into pawn shops to see if I can find him something nicer. (That's how I bought all my firearms, back when pawnshops could sell firearms...)

COOL, DAN! Did you go to pawn stars? :D

I started guitar lessons when I was 8..wanted to be like Elvis. They lasted till I was 12. I hope you son sticks to it so he can play around the campfire on the lake!
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Pawn Shops are dangerous......in a good way :) There's a great song by one of my favorite bands, Sublime, called "Pawn Shop" that's all about buying and hocking gear. It's a timer honored musical tradition. Sounds like you got a good deal. A Fender anything for $60 is a good deal. Keep us posted on the pickin' and grinin' ! Holler if you have any more questions.
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

COOL, DAN! Did you go to pawn stars? :D

LOL, Nope. I've never been in that place, too far away to go looking. I have a feeling it would be tough to get a deal out of that place anyway. :rolleyes:
 

mommicked

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
1,700
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

I'll take a beat up, scratched, dinged, sweet sounding guitar like my Alvarez, over a new pretty, shiny, horrible sounding one anyday. I recently played a few new Fenders while buying some strings and was impressed by the tone and the prices. I think they were $150-180- $250 they were almost identical and all appeared well made.
 

duke33

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
353
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

This reminds me of the movie, Crossroads. With the karate kid kid. Good luck to you and your son.
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

This reminds me of the movie, Crossroads.

In that movie, did the kid's dad go out and buy himself a guitar, after buying one for the kid?



I got the itch and asked my son if wanted to go out guitar shopping for/with dad :D

1st pawn shop - too high
2nd - nothing
3rd - lowend Epiphone, pass
4th - too high
5th - a Taylor signed by Toby Keith, nothing else
6th - nothing
7th - had several nice guitars and reasonable prices, willing to deal

2 hours of shopping and I bought myself a nice Fender DG-8 acoustic. Now I just need to figure out how to play the darn thing :eek: I kind of feel bad as this guitar is better than the one my son got, lower action, easier to play. I told him he could use it any time he wanted. (I got it so we had something to do together.)

12V, my son asked if we could go down to the Gold and Silver Pawn Shop (AKA Pawn Stars). I half thought about going down there for chits and grins. But, it was Saturday afternoon and that place would have been crawling with tourists... Another time I guess
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

I love that movie! The guitar "duel" at the end is awesome. It's called "Eugene's Trick Bag" really just Paganini's 5th caprice played on electric guitar by Ry Cooder and Steve Vai, but it still sounds cool. Paganini was the king of virtuoso violin. He made women swoon and his playing was so amazing people swore he was in league with the devil. He would even wear all black and be driven around in an all black carriage with all black horses to add to the mystique. His pieces, particularly his 24 caprices, are sort of a right of passage for "shredders" everywhere. You'll see everyone from 6 year old violin students to adult, professional musicians playing them to show off their chops, which is why they chose it for the movie. Sort of a wink and a nod to musicians in the audience. The 24th caprice is also another famous work you'll hear a lot. Although, not necessarily the hardest pieces out there (Beethoven sonatas are a PITA), they ain't easy either. I've been working on the 5th for years, and it still trips me up at times. It makes me feel better that you can even hear them using punch-ins in the movie to get everything just right. Here are some clips of the original violin piece and some of the guitar versions that have followed. Happy pickin'

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video...+-+Crossroads&c=5&sigr=11a8f0m31&fr=yfp-t-521

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video...s+5th+Caprice&c=1&sigr=11a1aopk6&fr=yfp-t-521

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video...tar,+AMAZING&c=13&sigr=11a1jj80d&fr=yfp-t-521

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video...º5+Gibson+SG&c=20&sigr=11akv165d&fr=yfp-t-521
 

rivermouse

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
661
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Dont forget the most important thing by far is the kids desire to learn the instrument. You can only put it in front of him and he has to do the rest. I would get a cheap guitar and see what he does with it. If he wants to learn it wont make much difference. If he doesnt have the driven desire to want to learn it even a martin will end up gathering dust...I do 100% agree that you get what you pay for and any SERIOUS student needs a serious instrument .Have you asked the child why he wants to play the guitar? This is important. The instrument never makes the music , the person with it does.
 

Brewman61

Ensign
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
996
Re: Kids First Guitar, 11YO

Except that even the most enthusiastic student can be discouraged by a poor quality instrument. My first learners guitar was so horribly built it was impossible to tune, neck was all wrong and I had a lot of trouble pressing the strings against the frets to get a clear sound, everything was dampened or buzzy. You need to at least give them a reasonalble changce to succeed by giving them something playable. Nothing wrong with inexpensive, everything wrong with cheap. Not to mention that you can more easily resell at a decent price a relatively nice quality instrument that you bought used than a Wally World junker. New students don't need pro quality, but they don't deserve junk, either.
 
Top