Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

samo_ott

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

That's a good point. I wont mind if mine has lots of little dents in it or some weld spots on it!
 

vergil

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

why do you all think its homeade, the plywood thing on the back is, but i doubt the boat itself is. look on the back right right above the toon there should be a plate right there, but it looks reveria cruiser
 

lncoop

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

That's what I was thinking. I've always associated the pointy toons with Riviera. How bout it, samo?
 

luckyjr

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

I didn't want to argue but I was serious about filling it with water and applying air pressure and heat to the damaged area. It has worked for me in the past on aluminum vessels but they were thicker. Water and air are like Hydraulic ram. That how we bring 10' dia pressure vessel up to 3000psi to test for certification.
 

vergil

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

I didn't want to argue but I was serious about filling it with water and applying air pressure and heat to the damaged area. It has worked for me in the past on aluminum vessels but they were thicker. Water and air are like Hydraulic ram. That how we bring 10' dia pressure vessel up to 3000psi to test for certification.

Whether its homeade or made from loppy log pontoon comany, or riveria cruiser, I think your idea is a good one and sure worth a try
 

luckyjr

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

Like said in the other post, you may get wet. You may tac weld a fixture on the area and use the come a long for a nudge. Air compresses water does not. Heat will expand Aluminum, Watch out for steam but it will help the expansion.
 

5150abf

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

I certianly don't want to step on your toes lucky but this is an old pontoon tube not a pressure vessel, too much air in a pontoon equals explosion, a presure vessel is designed to hold pressure from the inside out, a pontoon is designed to hold pressure from the outside in, your welds are x-rayed and certified, a pontoons aren't, they are made by a guy named Greg that wants to get home and drink beer.

Also pressure is pressure, it doesn't know where the dent is and will exert the same pressure over the entire inside of the tube and the aluminum will pull out but only where the pin is so you would need to weld 200+ pins on the tube to pull this huge dent out and then it would look like a golf ball with 200 dimples on it.

And last, aluminum aneals just below the melting point which is well above the boiling point of water and to heat the aluminum you would have to heat several hundred gallons of water to a crazy high heat, so poor Sam is standing there with a pontoon tube under pressure with several hundred gallons of boiling water inside, sounds like a recipe to make the evening news.
 

luckyjr

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

I certianly don't want to step on your toes lucky but this is an old pontoon tube not a pressure vessel, too much air in a pontoon equals explosion, a presure vessel is designed to hold pressure from the inside out, a pontoon is designed to hold pressure from the outside in, your welds are x-rayed and certified, a pontoons aren't, they are made by a guy named Greg that wants to get home and drink beer.

Also pressure is pressure, it doesn't know where the dent is and will exert the same pressure over the entire inside of the tube and the aluminum will pull out but only where the pin is so you would need to weld 200+ pins on the tube to pull this huge dent out and then it would look like a golf ball with 200 dimples on it.

And last, aluminum aneals just below the melting point which is well above the boiling point of water and to heat the aluminum you would have to heat several hundred gallons of water to a crazy high heat, so poor Sam is standing there with a pontoon tube under pressure with several hundred gallons of boiling water inside, sounds like a recipe to make the evening news.
5150, as usual you are right, the boiling water would be a probelm. The 200 pins, he could tac weld a long piece of alum sq tube across the dent and pulls straight. Forget the heat. Just use air and water and take it to the max slowly. If it blows, he will get wet. There is not enough air in there to hurt anyone but the pontoon. Your in command admiral. ha ha Seriously, do you think that will be safe, you know more about toons than me. We need to figure out how to fix these dents.
 

samo_ott

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

That's what I was thinking. I've always associated the pointy toons with Riviera. How bout it, samo?

I'm just repeating what I was told when I bought it. They said it was homemade. And the trailer also. You could tell when we were disassembling it that there were two different welders that made it as there were two distinct weld patterns on it. One looked pro and one looked amateur.
 

samo_ott

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

And no, I don't want to make the evening news!
 

5150abf

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

Like I said, the tube is already dead so you can't kill it anymore so anything you do to it can't hurt it.

Of the ideas presented I would go with the big hammer and a 4x4 block and cut access holes in the top of the tube and try to pound out what you can get, Maybe throw some heat on in , especially on the big creases, weld the hole and any leaks shut and see what you have.

I am pretty spoiled, I would just throw it in the pile and have another one built, then again it isn't coming out of my wallet.

Last week I threw away a 28' tube for a scratch 2'' long but on a boat that costs $80,000+ you need close to perfection.
 

samo_ott

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

Wow. That is spoiled. But I can see your point! Can't the old tubes be cut up and reused? I assume when you make a tube you have a sheet of aluminum and somehow you roll it up and then weld the seam to make a section? And are there usually end discs welded in each section to make them independent of each other so that it's not one big tube that'll sink in a hurry if punctured?
 

luckyjr

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

Like I said, the tube is already dead so you can't kill it anymore so anything you do to it can't hurt it.

Of the ideas presented I would go with the big hammer and a 4x4 block and cut access holes in the top of the tube and try to pound out what you can get, Maybe throw some heat on in , especially on the big creases, weld the hole and any leaks shut and see what you have.

I am pretty spoiled, I would just throw it in the pile and have another one built, then again it isn't coming out of my wallet.

Last week I threw away a 28' tube for a scratch 2'' long but on a boat that costs $80,000+ you need close to perfection.

Can I buy the 28' is what i need for my 3rd. Wonder what they would sell it for?80k wow. I got a price on 5052 1/8" 6' x 12' $258. Special order, 7' x 12' $297. With this, the can would be 27" dia x 12'. 2 cans= 24' and less than $600. Add a nose section 4 x 8' $200. You have $800 in material. You told me your man was fast. I'll give you 4 hours labor @ $50 an hr. $200. $1000 for each toon $80,0000. Some one is making some money. The Koreans will be making those and shipping over here if they find out. That what they did to the vessel business 10 years ago. Most all are not made here anymore. Our government gave them the money to do so. We are paying or I should say our grand children will be paying for DC stupidity.
 

5150abf

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

There was quite alot more to the boat than tubes, it was a 28' I/O Q which is our flagship model, sink, granite counter tops, power bimini ect ect.

As much as I would love to make you a set of tubes just getting what I need out of the line is enough of a challenge and we are going up again in January, also we are a manufacturer and don't do any retail, our customer is the dealer and you are the dealers customer.

We do sell damaged tubes but not to the public so you would have to go through a dealer and all that is well above my pay grade.

I am going in again today for hopefully the last time to finish laying out my weld line, we moved the rail department to the building that housed Azure and tore down the wall between them so I get a 500' straight shot for my weld line, which still barely fits, I still need to place 2 departments and 8 more welders, a couple air drops and then I am done, I sure hope it works, it looked good on paper but you know how that is.

Sam, we do try to save the tubes we can but cutting them up and rewelding them rarely works since they usually end up getting boogered up somewhere in the proccess, I did cut the nose cones off an elliptical tube last week but they are very expensive and take along time to build and that was pretty non invasive and quick.

I will buff a scratch or change an end cap or deck brackets but beyond that it isn't time effective to cut tubes up and save them, we are doing almost 30 boats a day.

We make them pretty much like the video that was going around here last week in concept but most of the proccess are different, I have guys from Southbay, Godfrey and Starcraft/Smoker and all 4 companies do the the same thing 4 different ways, in the end we all end up with a tube on the ground but in 4 very different ways.
 

Blank-N-Ship

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

Rather than attempting to make the existing pontoon "dentless", it might be worthwhile to think about TIG-welding some sort of shell or facade over the damaged area. Just a thought...
 

Blank-N-Ship

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

Can I buy the 28' is what i need for my 3rd. Wonder what they would sell it for?80k wow. I got a price on 5052 1/8" 6' x 12' $258. Special order, 7' x 12' $297. With this, the can would be 27" dia x 12'. 2 cans= 24' and less than $600. Add a nose section 4 x 8' $200. You have $800 in material. You told me your man was fast. I'll give you 4 hours labor @ $50 an hr. $200. $1000 for each toon $80,0000. Some one is making some money. The Koreans will be making those and shipping over here if they find out. That what they did to the vessel business 10 years ago. Most all are not made here anymore.
A new good-quality (American-made) 28' pontoon should cost you around $1,800 for what it's worth.
 

samo_ott

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

Rather than attempting to make the existing pontoon "dentless", it might be worthwhile to think about TIG-welding some sort of shell or facade over the damaged area. Just a thought...

I was wondering about that also. You'd have to make it water proof so that water did not flow through it and then one side would be a bit heavier than the other. But it is an idea.
 

Blank-N-Ship

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Re: Mangled pontoon. Is it fixable?

I was wondering about that also. You'd have to make it water proof so that water did not flow through it and then one side would be a bit heavier than the other. But it is an idea.
If there's not much of an indentation on the original pontoon then displacement remains about the same and thus, buoyancy. Adding a facade/shell in theory would return it to the original or better displacement (minus the weight of the added aluminum). Assuming that the original pontoon has no holes and assuming that the newly-added subsection under the shell does leak then the worst-case scenario seems to be that you're back to the original displacement minus the weight of the new aluminum (and a pontoon boat that lists to one side a little since the other pontoon still has the additional buoyancy).

We still don't know if the original pontoon is watertight, given that the damage occurred in your storage area. It does sound like it has mutiple baffled sections though.

You could, in fact, just TIG weld onto the bottom of both pontoons something that would be the equivalent of a skid plate on a four-wheeler. You wouldn't try to make everything watertight--you'd concentrate more on making it hydrodynamic instead. It would be a compromise on minimizing the aluminum weight versus both maximizing the lift and smoothing out the ride.

Honestly, you could buy a replacement rig that's ready-to-go and put your furniture on it. Maybe your homeowner's insurance has something that would compensate you for the damage. :shrugs:
 
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