Marine gear oil vs car oil

[JimS123]

Trying to save money on anything is not a bad idea. If it still works and does what it needs to/ you want it to then yes save all you can. I don't get the mentality of not worrying about the cost and just paying whatever it costs. Also not many people invest a year's salary into a boat you might but the majority of people who own boats don't they buy used boats that do what they want for often as cheap as they can get.

Worrying about saving money and always looking for a "deal" is what gets a lot of people into trouble. There are sooooo many used boats that are literally junk because they weren't taken proper care of, either because of money or the owner's lack of knowledge.

I do believe in being frugal, but the operative phrase here is cost effective. And to my main point - especially with oils - the cost difference is often no practical savings.

But, to each his own. If someone feels secure with brand X in their boat, then they should do it without feeling the need for validation.

 

[82rude]

Read this and make your own decision.There are many more on the net to support just this one.Marine and reg gear oil are not the same period.You may get away with it but ???I thought the same for years alsn my outboard I follow the mfg recommendations of every 3 years but I also take a peek to make sure its kosher.I been all over town and on the net and for what ever reason gear oil has really jumped up in price and that's for any gear oil.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Marine and reg gear oil are not the same period.

Um..That's not really true.

NMMA only specifiies "Marine" type 4-stroke oil , FC-W, FC-W(CAT) and 2-stroke oil TC-W3 (API TC is a NON water cooled spec)

If you 'd like to know more about NMMA certification of oils, and other "stuff" have a look at the following.

https://www.nmma.org/certification

There is no specification for "Marine" gear lubricant........

Some manufacturers make claims that their branded "marine" oil will maintain lubrication standards (4-ball test etc) with up to 10% water contamination (like AM$OIL, and Mercury + others)

The actual ASTM tests for gear lubricants with water contamination are : " [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Water Separability Characteristics of Petroleum and Synthetic Fluids" ASTM D1401 and "Demulsibility Characteristics of Lubricating Oils" ASTM D2711

Pretty much all certified gear lubricants (GL-4, GL-5 etc) are tested to these standards. (which is probably why all the marine manufacturers for years have indicated that you can use any GL-5 gear (non-limited-slip) lubricant in a lower unit gearbox. Mercury specifies a synthetic oil for the Bravos (like Mercury HP gear lubricant) but just about any synthetic gear lubricant can be (and is) used successfully.

An enclosed gearbox that operates under water is no different than any other enclosed gear box...

For anyone that would like to read about that, the following article is a good one[/FONT]

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/616/gear-drive-lubricants


SO for the OP's original question, ,

I was talking to someone and they said that if I found the right car oil that the only difference would be a certain additive in the marine gear oil/lube. Is this correct and would anyone know the type of oil I would need to buy?

"Someone" is wrong. There is no "Certain Additive" in "marine" gear lubricant.
(Mainly because there is no "Marine" gear lubricant .and if there was, NMMA would certify it)

If you have a high power I/O (like a 300hp Bravo, VP etc) you can use either Mercury HP, Amsoil, Mobil 1, or any other synthetic (non-limited slip) gear lubricant.
(Volvo indicates to use GL-5 75W-90 oil..... (which would be a synthetic) Certain older "AQ" VP drives even use engine oil!)

If you have a lower power outboard: Mercury says below 75hp you're ok with their NON-syn oil (which is a GL-5 gear lubricant) But you can still use any synthetic like Merc HP, Am$oil, Mobil-1 etc.

You could also use what I use.....but it's classified so I cannot reveal it! ,<it's actually 1 of the above.....but don't tell anyone! >


Regards,


Rick

 

[K-2]

"Some manufacturers make claims that their branded "marine" oil will maintain lubrication standards (4-ball test etc) with up to 10% water contamination (like AM$OIL, and Mercury + others)"

When your prop shaft seals go out and your oil is a milkshake but you don't know that and you store the motor for the winter and discover siezed up lower unit gears/bearings THEN you will discover the need for MARINE GEAR OIL . And the need for changing or at least looking at the oil.

 

[82rude]

Guess this could go on forever just like, which 2 stroke oil is best?HT32BSX115 just read on another corporate site gl-5 is a building block not a standard.Says a lot more but im not reprinting it here .Personally I will stick with erude premium gear oil as the cost is not bad atall.ultra-hpf.

 

[SkaterRace]

Um..That's not really true.

NMMA only specifiies "Marine" type 4-stroke oil , FC-W, FC-W(CAT) and 2-stroke oil TC-W3 (API TC is a NON water cooled spec)

If you 'd like to know more about NMMA certification of oils, and other "stuff" have a look at the following.

https://www.nmma.org/certification

There is no specification for "Marine" gear lubricant........

Some manufacturers make claims that their branded "marine" oil will maintain lubrication standards (4-ball test etc) with up to 10% water contamination (like AM$OIL, and Mercury + others)

The actual ASTM tests for gear lubricants with water contamination are : " [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Water Separability Characteristics of Petroleum and Synthetic Fluids" ASTM D1401 and "Demulsibility Characteristics of Lubricating Oils" ASTM D2711

Pretty much all certified gear lubricants (GL-4, GL-5 etc) are tested to these standards. (which is probably why all the marine manufacturers for years have indicated that you can use any GL-5 gear (non-limited-slip) lubricant in a lower unit gearbox. Mercury specifies a synthetic oil for the Bravos (like Mercury HP gear lubricant) but just about any synthetic gear lubricant can be (and is) used successfully.

An enclosed gearbox that operates under water is no different than any other enclosed gear box...

For anyone that would like to read about that, the following article is a good one[/FONT]

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/616/gear-drive-lubricants


SO for the OP's original question, ,

"Someone" is wrong. There is no "Certain Additive" in "marine" gear lubricant.
(Mainly because there is no "Marine" gear lubricant .and if there was, NMMA would certify it)

If you have a high power I/O (like a 300hp Bravo, VP etc) you can use either Mercury HP, Amsoil, Mobil 1, or any other synthetic (non-limited slip) gear lubricant.
(Volvo indicates to use GL-5 75W-90 oil..... (which would be a synthetic) Certain older "AQ" VP drives even use engine oil!)

If you have a lower power outboard: Mercury says below 75hp you're ok with their NON-syn oil (which is a GL-5 gear lubricant) But you can still use any synthetic like Merc HP, Am$oil, Mobil-1 etc.

You could also use what I use.....but it's classified so I cannot reveal it! ,<it's actually 1 of the above.....but don't tell anyone! >


Regards,


Rick

Great information! Do you happen to know what a 1977 mercury 850 would take? Manual is a bit of a PITA to use.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Guess this could go on forever

Yes it could. But having worked in the oil industry, I know what "they" do with marketing. I also know the standards that automotive petroleum products have to meet before API (and NMMA) will certify them.

If anyone "feels" better believing unproven marketing claims, I would be the first person that will tell them to go with their feelings.

When your prop shaft seals go out and your oil is a milkshake but you don't know that and you store the motor for the winter and discover siezed up lower unit gears/bearings .

EVERY marine manufacturer recommends either changing the gear oil (after 100hrs etc) and the end of the boating "season." I don't remember anyone suggesting to NOT follow any manufacturer service recommendations.

THEN you will discover the need for MARINE GEAR OIL

Labeling a bottle of API GL-5 Gear Lubricant as "Marine Gear Lubricant" doesn't make it any different from API GL-5 Gear lubricant...........But I'll keep that in mind when the API and NMMA actually establishes a service classification: "MARINE GEAR OIL". But right now, NONE exists. So I'll continue to use one of the good synthetic GL-5 (NON-limited-slip) hypoid gear oils in my outboard and my Bravo III.

SO for the OP' original question.....,

they said that if I found the right car oil that the only difference would be a certain additive in the marine gear oil/lube.

There is no "certain additive" in "Marine Oil" other than the label on the bottle. And they get to charge more for it...... It must work because people buy it. (the marketing, that is.....)


This of course is becoming :deadhorse: So I'll shut up. Circular threads usually get locked by a Mod. (and for good reasons I might add!)


Best Regards,

Rick

 

[flyingscott]

UOTE=Sea Rider;n10146767]

Simple deduction, lower gear case is sealed at prop for water not to penetrate through, drive shaft which is also sealed at impeller housing probably seals much less efficient than prop, could allow fumes coming from OB exhaust at high rpm and pressure to eventually penetrate through drive shaft seals directly into gear case, used gear oil smells combustion like.

Why do you think OB gear oils contaminates and discolors so fast compared to a car gearcase which can be used and maintained nearly clean for hundred thousand miles. If this deduction of mine is out of this world, please enlighent us with a proper tech supported answer..

Happy Boating[/QUOTE]


My 2 cents

If your theory was true pressure and vacuum tests would irrelevant because according to you they always leak.
Where does the gear lube go while the exhaust is pushing itself into the lower unit and seals should be popping out with that much pressure.
I doubt that your motor could run with as much back pressure as it would take to push past the seal.
If you have gear lube that smells like exhaust and fuel you have a bigger problems and need to reseal the lower not normal.
The drive shaft most of the time has it's own set of seals doesn't use the water pump to seal the lower so the driveshaft seals leaking before the propshaft seals unlikely.

As far as additives I think the gear lube is different because of water intrusion. Water displaces oil I think it has an additive to help the oil and water mix.
I also don't drive my care in the water so my differential does not spend it's working life submerged.

 

[K-2]

Pennzoil says there is a difference: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/480058/1

I am a commercial fisherman in Alaska and put 600-1,000 hours a year on my DP-B drives. The people who make the oil say there is a difference and I believe them. I ran one drive so long (2 weeks)with a water intrusion leak that it wouldn't shift right. I had the drive completely gone through and there was no internal damage. I have gotten away with too much using the expensive oil . I'm done here.

 

[JimS123]

Great information! Do you happen to know what a 1977 mercury 850 would take? Manual is a bit of a PITA to use.

Funny.....my manual is quite readable.

Here you go...even if you don't have a loacl dealer ebay sends it to your house easy peasy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Hig...ash=item1c3f526f6e:g:j-EAAOSwpdpVczcs&vxp=mtr

 

[SkaterRace]

Funny.....my manual is quite readable.

Here you go...even if you don't have a loacl dealer ebay sends it to your house easy peasy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Hig...ash=item1c3f526f6e:g:j-EAAOSwpdpVczcs&vxp=mtr

My manual is just a pain to use as it is blurry for text and images. I am thinking I need to replace it but have not got around to it yet. As for the oil yes that would work but as mentioned in the thread, I am not looking to know if that works I already know it does. You can buy that at CTC but I was wondering more about the normal gear oil not the marine stuff.

 

[GA_Boater]

Skater - Use what ever floats your boat. You are quibbling about a few pennies spent annually. If the lube had to be changed after every day on the water, I could understand. But once a year maximum or every two years, I find your concerns to be mystifying.

 

[SkaterRace]

Skater - Use what ever floats your boat. You are quibbling about a few pennies spent annually. If the lube had to be changed after every day on the water, I could understand. But once a year maximum or every two years, I find your concerns to be mystifying.

I am asking because if 2 products work and are both okay to use why use the more expensive one? For the time it takes to ask here it is worth it for the extra $10 or so I would save. Never understood just buying what ever marketing says, but each to their own.

 

[jbcurt00]

I would counter w why take the advise of a shadetree mechanic who hasnt run 2 motors side by side 1 w each type of gear lube to prove himself right, to save $20+/- annually or less often.

Penny wise pound foolish comes to mind.

Perhaps it is marketing hype, is it worth $20 to not find out automotive gear lube isnt sufficient.

But as you said, to each his own.

 

[flyingscott]

If you were that worried about the money you probably shouldn't have bought a boat.
Everybody knows boat stands for

Bust
Out
Another
Thousand

 

[GA_Boater]

This is one more of the topics in which the OP asks a question when they have their mind made up before asking, In other words, this topic serves no purpose.

 

[SkaterRace]

This is one more of the topics in which the OP asks a question when they have their mind made up before asking, In other words, this topic serves no purpose.

My mind was not made up, I was looking for information as to if normal gear oil would work and if not then why. If everyone would have said no it does not work then I would use the marine stuff. But some have said that normal gear oil will work just fine so yes the topic does serve a purpose, to talk about and find out weather normal gear oil will work in an outboard lower unit. Just saying no it doesn't without a reason then yes I will question it until I know why it is a bad idea.

 

[SkaterRace]

If you were that worried about the money you probably shouldn't have bought a boat.
Everybody knows boat stands for

Bust
Out
Another
Thousand

Yeah I have heard that one before. Owning a boat does not mean you just spend money stupidly, trying to save money is never bad if you still are getting something that works and is safe. So Sure it is only $12 difference but that is on one item, what about the other 20 that you buy every year? I save money on the 2 stroke oil by waiting till it is on sale instead of buying full price. I know about how much it takes for a month which is about how long it is until it is on sale again. It is amazing the amount of people on this forum that are just willing to keep spending money on their boat until it is done perfect and is amazing. I really don't understand how wasting money is a smart idea.

 

[flyingscott]

Yeah I have heard that one before. Owning a boat does not mean you just spend money stupidly, trying to save money is never bad if you still are getting something that works and is safe. So Sure it is only $12 difference but that is on one item, what about the other 20 that you buy every year? I save money on the 2 stroke oil by waiting till it is on sale instead of buying full price. I know about how much it takes for a month which is about how long it is until it is on sale again. It is amazing the amount of people on this forum that are just willing to keep spending money on their boat until it is done perfect and is amazing. I really don't understand how wasting money is a smart idea.

Saving a dime to spend a dollar up to you. By the way the people who spend the money to keep their boats nice it's called Pride of Ownership.

 

[82rude]

So ive been looking at all my outboard manuals .They run the gamut from factory,seloc Chilton,etc.The one thing constant in every one of them is to never use automotive type gear oil.The constant thread is that auto type oil doesn't have additives to prevent foaming and there is no allowance for expansion in marine lower units like in auto.Now maybe theres a giant conspiracy by the authors of these books to hoodwink us out of 5 bucks each but until ive got 100 percent concrete proof and even after reading HT32BSX115 posts im still left with questions as I found other links that added to his but still left questions.Just like tcw3 ,gl-5 is a base or minimum standard as I understand ,its the additives that make the gear oil what it is and for what app.Lets not even get into beveled,helical ,straight cut gears etc which also determine what you should use.Every site ive been on today says theres a difference so I tend to believe there is .Personally for me to spend 6 bucks per year for 3 years is not a deal breaker.Etec 60 hp change every 300 or 3 years with the provisio if your a salty once a year.Im a fresh water guy .Ive yet to look at a auto gear oil bottle and see the words good for marine apps,4 words that if on there would mean a lot more sales so it begs the question why not?