Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

[metalwizard]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

If the hole was wet, the 5200 won't stick, it just balls up. That was my experience, anyway. Make sure the hole is dry. I love 5200, just wish it would cure in 2 hours. LOL
I keep my tube of unused in a baggie in the freezer. Clean the top 3/8 inch out and your good to go.

I think that may have been some of my issue. I had some oily residue on the transom. and I washed it right before the "install"

Hmmmmmm haven't shot hoops in some time (real bad knees) but, with some practice I could

well them maybe we can go bowling then.. i'm getting old too.

I'd use marine tex in those holes!

Marine tex? i'll have to look it up.

thanks.

 

[Beefer]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

I'm surprised nobody brought this up.

To fill a screw hole in my transom, I drill out the hole, insert an epoxy covered wooden plug (dowel is fine), and then cover it with MarineTex once the epoxy dries. The PO of my boat filled 4 screw holes with silicone, and they popped out easily, and there was some wet wood behind the 'plugs'. Silicone (as mentioned) is for above the waterline.... ONLY.

 

[Philster]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

My suggestion: When seeking input about what to use, and you get a certain answer based on other's experience, go with it, especially when there is a preponderance of evidence, it is backed up by manufacturer uses, and often includes references.

To discuss the science behind why something works, it would be considered kind to say something along the lines of "I will use that; thanks for the advice everyone. But, since I am a curious soul, could someone explain to me how one works better than the other?"

I don't care if you are debating what kind of boat to buy or what type of sealant to use. To approach a subject objectively: listen/read, gather facts and look for references/cites and other evidence. When your case lacks any, simply give up. It's okay to be a critical thinker, but don't offend those helping.

Because of the boards here, I've saved thousands of dollars by using the right products the right ways.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

That quote tells me one thing you have NO idea why you do it that way. you just do it because someone told you thats the way you do it. to me that is VERY uneducated... to follow someone jsut because they say so is pretty dumb... if I went and played on the freeway and told you to do it because I said you should.. who would be the most foolish.. me for telling you to? or you for doing without any background or thought..... think about that a bit.

This is a terrible analogy. I teach Scuba for a living and quite often I encounter a student who can memorize the rules, but lacks in comprehending why the rules exist. The rule is: you should NOT play in traffic. Whether or not you understand why the rule exists is not as important as you following the rule. Comprehension is great, but often it takes, thought, patience, reasoning and experience to attain. His quote indicated to me that he had come to the limit of his patience and ability to explain the reasoning further. I too found your thread incredibly enlightening and it helped me to better (not fully) comprehend the science of sealing. Good stuff to know, but I have cables to go pull on my boat.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

Whether or not you understand why the rule exists is not as important as you following the rule.

Bad advice there. That's only appropriate if you implicitly trust the person who makes the rule.

This is the internet. Anyone can post anything. Nothing to stop me and ten thousand other people from posting the rule "ALWAYS PLAY IN TRAFFIC" in response to a question.

Maybe it's worked OK for us, maybe we just don't know any better, maybe we just don't care. No way to tell.

I wouldn't act on any advice I received from the internet without completely understanding it. Anyone can make a mistake or be wrong.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

Bad advice there. That's only appropriate if you implicitly trust the person who makes the rule.

You equate "understanding" with "trusting": they are not the same. "Completely" is a fool's errand. Who decides what is a complete understanding? It would be my opinion that dingbat has shown a superior comprehension of understanding why adhesives fail. Yet, I would suggest that even he feels that there is more to learn, to understand and to explore. By definition then, his understanding is not "complete", nor can it ever be.

One of the tenets I impart to my students is to never do a "Trust Me" dive. That's where you rely on the other person's experience, training and gear to attempt a dive you are not ready to do on your own. That being said, trust is a major factor in teaching students to dive or how to fix a boat through the internet. I may not be able to work out the expansion coefficients of 3M 5200 on a sunny day on Pickles Reef, but I trust dingbat enough to accept that its one of the various reasons why I want to use it and not silicone for any sealing below the water line.

 

[mpdive]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

You must have an old batch. My complaint has always been that it tends to run. I used it to fill holes around a cable. I would put it in and it would try to run right out. I finally put it in and put a piece of waxed paper over it and painters tape to hold it in place. The result was a water tight fill. Probably a good thing it flows that easy because it filled every gap. Takes a while to dry though. Something like 24 hrs, for every eighth inch or something like that. Good stuff though.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

Snip from quote .. I was always under the impression that TRUE silicone was the best sealant for water.. period... Snip from quote

So you didnt know from personal knowledge at this point ? ..

I got lots of great input. now I basically know Why I should NOT use silicone. so I got the answer I wanted. even though it really was NOT what I was expecting. so bottom line this thread did exactly what I hoped for.. it answered my question, it enlightened me on something I had never heard of. and it steered me in the right direction.. so I learned something new. and I may have saved myself some problems in the Future..

I am not one that does not learn something everyday as well glad we could help.

that was until I read your post. it was the longest overdone post to tell me "well thats just the way you do it"

That quote tells me one thing you have NO idea why you do it that way. you just do it because someone told you thats the way you do it. to me that is VERY uneducated... to follow someone jsut because they say so is pretty dumb... if I went and played on the freeway and told you to do it because I said you should.. who would be the most foolish.. me for telling you to? or you for doing without any background or thought..... think about that a bit.

Actually .. I do know Why I do it ( and its not because someone Told me to use this or that product lol ).. but you are quoting me out of context there.

If you look at my post .. I was suggesting that the Forum as a group " Its just the way you do it " or " the right way to seal " when asking a question without further information on What product you used and how it failed ..

I never suggested Myself that I would say " Its just the way you do it ". Its an over all forum response that you would NOT use Silicone Under the waterline.

Thanks to everyone for their enlightening input.. my question was answered extremely well. thats why I come to this forum... with a few stupid exceptions there is an AWESOME accumulation of Experience and mental power here unlike anywhere else..

You bet your behind there is a vast amount of Experience here .. .

now I am going to grab my ball and go down to the hwy and shoot some hoops.. wanna come with me??

I dont shoot with Spaldings ..

So you used "Marine" grade "sealant" .. what brand ? ..

Silicone is for Above the waterline ONLY ! And for limited applications ..

Seems to me that you want an easy way to fill a small hole with something you have on hand .. or your trying to start an Silicone VS. 3m thingy ..

Im sure most of us will suggest the Right way to do things .. and if you argue the "well why" .. then its going to be mostly " because this is how its done correctly ".

Some here might be able to tell you the chemical and water thingys of said application with silicone ( or whatever you preferred method argument might be ) is bound to fail with chemical this and that .. I think your get the gist of what the members are saying.. its Just not a Good practice to put silicone Below the waterline in Any way.

Take it or leave it .. its up to you and your boat.

Peace..

YD.

I hope I put this in context now ..

YD.

 

[V153]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

If there's one thing I really love about this forum it's how the simplest question can snowball into an argument. Not to be unexpected when you get a bunch of experts together. (No pun intended.)

Fwiw I use 5200 below the water line and 4200 above. If you can't get either of these products to stick to anything then something is very very wrong. That stuff will adhere to wax paper

Please correct me but if I'm not mistaken there are three kinds of caulks: Latex, Silicone, and Urethane. It's been my experience that regardless of surface prep, silicone does not do well under water. Use a urethane.

And I will say this: 5200 is not as un-removable as some would have you believe. I used it extensively during my V153 rebuild. Sadly I wrecked the boat. But in the process of stripping it I've discovered it's relatively easy to break the bonds?

Oh well. Thanks for the arguments. For some strange reason they remind me of an old Monty Python skit ...?

 

[metalwizard]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

If there's one thing I really love about this forum it's how the simplest question can snowball into an argument. Not to be unexpected when you get a bunch of experts together. (No pun intended.)

Fwiw I use 5200 below the water line and 4200 above. If you can't get either of these products to stick to anything then something is very very wrong. That stuff will adhere to wax paper

Please correct me but if I'm not mistaken there are three kinds of caulks: Latex, Silicone, and Urethane. It's been my experience that regardless of surface prep, silicone does not do well under water. Use a urethane.

And I will say this: 5200 is not as un-removable as some would have you believe. I used it extensively during my V153 rebuild. Sadly I wrecked the boat. But in the process of stripping it I've discovered it's relatively easy to break the bonds?

Oh well. Thanks for the arguments. For some strange reason they remind me of an old Monty Python skit ...?

Oh you mean you want more than mere contradiction?

Yacht Dr. I did not mean to say YOU just do things because thats what you are told.

I was begged to come run some laser equipment at a local shop.. when I started, the kid that had been trying to run it said I was doing things wrong... I asked why he thought that... he said because I was told to run it this way.. I asked him "did they tell you why to run it that way" he said Nope thats just what they told me.

He had NO IDEA what he was doing or why he was doing it.. no wonder the laser was really messed up and the work done with it was HORRIBLE..

after tuning the Laser up cleaning the drive and optics and adjusting it properly... it runs like a champ.

I showed him HOW to do things... and I told Him WHY you do it that way... his response 'Well that makes a lot of sense" it's amazing how simple things can be if you really understand WHY you do something one way or another. not just plugging away because "thats how it's done" I see that happening WAY to often.

 

[V153]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

Oh you mean you want more than mere contradiction?

No I don't ...!

 

[spdracr39]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

Well I can say that just doing something because that's what everyone says to do can and will cost you money that is unnecessary to spend. Understanding the why not only gives you the opportunity to make a better repair or improvement but it also allows you to make future repairs without having to ask. Every situation is unique. One answer cannot and will not cover all circumstances. Anyone that gives advice and is then offended when someone asks why should probably reflect on why they are giving advice. Is it because they want to help or is it because they want to think it couldn't be done without their help. Education is NEVER a bad thing. So while you are allowed to say "I told you so" when we don't listen please don't say "just because" when we ask why.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

No I don't ...!

Yes you do! ok thats enough now... this is getting Silly...

Well I can say that just doing something because that's what everyone says to do can and will cost you money that is unnecessary to spend. Understanding the why not only gives you the opportunity to make a better repair or improvement but it also allows you to make future repairs without having to ask. Every situation is unique. One answer cannot and will not cover all circumstances. Anyone that gives advice and is then offended when someone asks why should probably reflect on why they are giving advice. Is it because they want to help or is it because they want to think it couldn't be done without their help. Education is NEVER a bad thing. So while you are allowed to say "I told you so" when we don't listen please don't say "just because" when we ask why.

Thank you and AMEN..

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

Seeing as this threads question has been answered already .. and more the 50% of the posts herein does not follow the question at hand .. I suggest that the thread either change the name to something like " Dont believe everything you read " or " I need info but will only believe what I want and from whom ".

I hope we all understand now that " marine sealant " ( 5200,5200 fast cure,4200 fast cure,4000,sikaflex,silicone,Dap,Boatlife etc ) has its unique characteristics in specific uses and locations.

I dont care if its a sealant or fiberglass and resin.. If you dont prep right it will fail.

I have seen properly prepped holes under the waterline filled with silicone with no ill affect ( still not recommended ) .. and I have seen 5200 fail due to no prep at all.

As far as where the thread has come to about who to listen to .. or not to listen at all .. I would suggest you call up the manufactures or look at the MSDS for each product for Specific qualities or applications. 3M has a great product support line that will help you.

If you have received your answer from some members here.. and then in turn disregard other information from other members .. then you are picking your own answers before they are answered.

Lemme go back to your OP .. You should Fill your holes that your not using or that have failed with Glass and resin. Not silicon or marine sealant.

Why ? Because its the right way to do it ..

Peace.

YD.

PS. Im not coming back to this thread. It has been answered and gotten way off track .. back on track.. then derailed again.

 

[mpdive]

Re: Marine sealant Vs. Silicone

Seeing as this threads question has been answered already .. and more the 50% of the posts herein does not follow the question at hand .. I suggest that the thread either change the name to something like " Dont believe everything you read " or " I need info but will only believe what I want and from whom ".

I hope we all understand now that " marine sealant " ( 5200,5200 fast cure,4200 fast cure,4000,sikaflex,silicone,Dap,Boatlife etc ) has its unique characteristics in specific uses and locations.

I dont care if its a sealant or fiberglass and resin.. If you dont prep right it will fail.

I have seen properly prepped holes under the waterline filled with silicone with no ill affect ( still not recommended ) .. and I have seen 5200 fail due to no prep at all.

As far as where the thread has come to about who to listen to .. or not to listen at all .. I would suggest you call up the manufactures or look at the MSDS for each product for Specific qualities or applications. 3M has a great product support line that will help you.

If you have received your answer from some members here.. and then in turn disregard other information from other members .. then you are picking your own answers before they are answered.

Lemme go back to your OP .. You should Fill your holes that your not using or that have failed with Glass and resin. Not silicon or marine sealant.

Why ? Because its the right way to do it ..

Peace.

YD.

PS. Im not coming back to this thread. It has been answered and gotten way off track .. back on track.. then derailed again.

How do threads go "awry" like this? Only thing missing was filling the hole with a chicklet