Merc 305 Vs. 350 - Input Please!

John_S

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
4,269
Re: Merc 305 Vs. 350 - Input Please!

I agree with what the document says, and looks like it is tied to being CARB compliant. But, for merc to drop 30hp across their lineup, and after this amount of time not fix the website or other literature, doesn't make sense, either. Maybe other dealers can shed some light.

Volvo ratings, which are usually a litle better than mercs, still show the same: http://www.volvopenta.com/VOLVOPENT...E_STERNDRIVE/Pages/p_gasoline_sterndrive.aspx
 

TomB985

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
213
Re: Merc 305 Vs. 350 - Input Please!

So, SA, explain to me why a smaller capacity engine making huge power (like a fully revved up 350 making 400hp @ 6,000rpm) is crap in a boat where as lumbering big displacement diesel making 250 horsepower @ 3,000rpm is so much better in the same boat. If that's not a statement about torque vs horsepower, nothing is! :mad:

Really not sure why I'm called "SA", but if it's what I think it means it's uncalled for. If you have a problem with my posts, you can feel free to ignore them if you wish. I come to forums to exchange information, and by doing this I learn a LOT. You clearly know more about boats than I do, but this is simple physics.

You call a high-spinning 400 HP SBC "Crap" in a boat, but I would challenge this argument. Why do we have high-revving, lightweight, high-power outboards hanging off of the fastest bass boats? Nearly every one of these engines spins to 6K+, and they do a GREAT job performing their task. What about the jet boats of the 70s and 80s, with their 3-500 HP high-revving V8s? Would you call those "crap" as well?

I can think of a couple reasons why you'd want the diesel in a large planing hull though. First of all would be fuel economy. An engine making it's rated power at 3,000 RPMs will be FAR more efficient than one at 6,000 RPMs, assuming that they are operated near their rated power RPM fairly often. Furthermore diesel fuel has ~30% more energy per unit volume, further increasing fuel efficiency. A small-displacement V8 may not have the torque to get a large planing hull on plane, and therefore it may never be able to rev to it's HP peak. Might not But if it were, and were correctly propped, it would be moving MUCH faster at 6,000 RPMs than the diesel could ever attain.

People love to talk about torque, but they rarely recognize that because torque is an integral part of HP an engine that makes more torque at a given RPM is also making more horsepower. Meaning that the 250 HP diesel is making more horsepower at 3,000 RPMs than that high-revving gas v8 could. As RPMs climb, diesel torque comes down and the gasser is just coming into it's domain.

It's all about the right engine for the application. My Mustang makes 412 HP @ 6,500 RPMs. The engine is a nice, light, 450-ish lbs, and therefore it does a GREAT job powering my Mustang. My Caterpillar C15 powering the truck that I used to drive weighed 3,200 lbs, and made 435 HP. Obviously this would be "crap" in a Mustang because of weight, and my 5.0 would be "crap" in the truck because of longevity. That's right, I said longevity! With reduction gearing I can make my Mustang engine output 1,750 ft-lbs like the truck motor can, but to make enough horsepower to move the truck up a hill at highway speed it would be screaming at redline! Certainly wouldn't last the ~1,000,000 miles that the C15 would!
 

jmw129

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
253
Re: Merc 305 Vs. 350 - Input Please!

Without wishing to start (another) fight, your mechanic is talk with his hat on backwards, it's more 'horses for courses'.. I have a friend with twin 260hp (350cu-in) engines in a 28' boat. My V6 powered boat out-performs it in every way; top speed, fuel economy, easy of maintenance....



Again, that mechanic needs to shut up! Because he hasn't a clue what he's talking about.... When I had my dealership we were dropping those 'whimpy' engines into 18' half-cabin boats and they were doing up in the 40mph area. The owners were reporting that they RARELY used anything near WOT, same as my old V6 in the 23'cuddy. His wife refuses to be on the boat if he uses anything more than 3/4 throttle....



That's more to do with lower reciprocating mass. Lighter crankshaft, less pistons will spin easier than lots of pistons on a heavy crank. With a smaller engine you need to make up for the lower displacement with high revs (and compression). For us in the boating world it's more about torque than top end horsepower. We rarely use WOT, and the main rev range we cruise in is the midrange, so we want a good strong torque curve lower down, which conflicts with high output at the top end... Without getting into superchargers, you can have fantastic power at high revs, or good solid torque mid-range, but rarely both...



It exists in any boat you want it to exist in. Just get enough power into it and it will travel... As I stated earlier, my V6 powered 20' boat tops out at 49.6mph.... right in the middle of your desired range....

It's all to do with hull shape, weigh and torque characteristics of the engine.... That's why most boat engines use 'truck' type cams.... Not race car cams....

The comment about hull shape is the area lately I've been trying to figure out. Do you have actual pic's of boats that were doing 49.6mph with a V6?

I'm not opposed to a V6 if I can get strong torque especially at the lift and still get 48-50mph range and save some gas. I like V8's but I'm not dumb.

When I owned my outboard, it was light, and a very high power V4 but had a lot of lift and the boat kept up with V6 & V8 until the speed went 40mph. People were suprised and took them a long time to finally get ahead.. lol.. yeah I mess around a bit just to see people's reaction.

The only compliant I have is since it was a light ski boat, the waves, chope, wakes, etc... made for a very rough ride at top end speed.

By the way, I wouldn't mind actually calling & talking to you for about 10 mins on the phone just to pick your brain. I would greatly apprciate it if you're willing. Thx!
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: Merc 305 Vs. 350 - Input Please!

The comment about hull shape is the area lately I've been trying to figure out. Do you have actual pic's of boats that were doing 49.6mph with a V6?...

The boat in my signature.... If you would like more, PM me with your email address...
 

TomB985

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
213
Re: Merc 305 Vs. 350 - Input Please!

My boat listed in my sign will also do 48 MPH. Just about anything in the 18-19' range with the 4.3 should do mid -40s if propped correctly. If it had a flatter hull with less deadrise it could go faster.
 
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