National Biased Company strikes again.

[lakelivin]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Don't know about GW, but talk to anyone who lives in the Adirondak Mountains about the effect acid rain has had on fish populations in what are otherwise pristene lakes. And plenty of science to back that up. <br /><br />Just something 'firm' to keep in mind regarding mans effect on the environment as we discuss the more debatable issue of GW.

 

[jtexas]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> This is a just plain silly discussion. To a serious issue.<br /><br />Complex science does not lend itself to simplistic black and white solutions or explainations<br />. If you put it in a risk matrix, you have a clear answer:<br /><br />Do nothing>> Would help Risk level high<br />Do nothing >>not help Risk level low<br /><br />Do something >> Not help Risk level low<br />Do something>> Would help Reward level high <br /><br />The only way to run any real risk is to do nothing, when action would indeed help. Even if you do something, and it doesn't help, there is little risk, other than a little bit of money.<br /><br />However, if you do something, and it does help, it has the potential of great reward.<br /><br />It is a no-brainer

pw2, <br />Your risk matrix is fine assuming it costs nothing to do "something." Of course you can't evaluate the cost effectiveness of "something" without estimating the consequences of "nothing." <br /><br />Once you add cost to the analysis, you introduce "real risk" to the "Do Something" scenarios.<br /><br />Cost in, say, human life and suffering of not allowing development in developing nations; cost to all us 2-stroke users with SUVs of investing in etecs and Escape Hybrids, that sort of thing.<br /><br />Also in scenario 3 have you considered the possibly negative consequence from doing the wrong thing.<br /><br />One question: if this is "Complex science" not lending itself to "simplistic black and white solutions" how did it get to be a "no-brainer"?<br /><br />Not a bad start, I just think it's a brainer.

 

[oddjob]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Hey,just for the record.<br /><br />I try keep all lights in my house off when I'm not in the room. I drive at a moderate speed and excelerate slowly. I dont throw trash on the ground. And I try not to fart in public. I avoid paper plates and towels. I think we create alot of unnecessary waste. I can do with out it and I have. And I drive a 96 jeep 4x4 6 cyl. And I've been that way as long as I can remember. <br /><br />I have a problem when someone from the left that attempts to tell me about the enviroment and what I'm doing to destroy it. <br /><br />As soon as these folks convinced me to go to a compact truck or vehicle in the late 80's the whole population basically went 180 back to full size and super sizes.<br /><br />Now I got lots of soccer moms driving around here like there going to a monster truck show....people with 5th wheel trucks and duel'ys and dont even own a trailer or a boat...<br /><br /><br />I am.... Enviroman! ...but I need a bigger truck.

 

[eeboater]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Originally posted by oddjob:<br />I am.... Enviroman! ...but I need a bigger truck.

No you don't - '96 Jeep 4x4's are perfect Daily drivers.... I have a '97

 

[oddjob]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

I really like mine too....but the crazy women driving hummers like their in a sports car scare the He77 out of me...I need some protection ...

 

[Link]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Global Warming: What takes place between ice ages.

Spot on<br />Also I watched a program on PBS a couple weeks ago about the (Jet Stream)? I think thats what they called it. And the paper a guy wrote in Japan on it. He got poo pooed until WWII when they used his information to float bombs over here to the west coast.<br />They were not talking about global warming but they did explain a lot about how the jet stream effects weather and storms such as europe has been seeing in the last decade or so when it has changed a few degrees.<br /><br />Are you sure you weren't just bored and went trolling JB??

 

[txswinner]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

It is difficult to believe that some think man has not polluted and caused problems in our environment. Some is smoke, some is car exhaust, industry, water pollution, put it all together and we have done more in the last 100 years than man did in the previous 1,000,000 years. I think farting is probably ok but how many dino turds did it take to match 10,000 gals. of crude oil. Don't know then run up to Alaska.<br /><br />Whether you think the results are from the cause theories is fine, but to say nothing needs to be done is Rushest (ditto dodo).

 

[txswinner]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

And water becomes a solid at under 32 degrees regardless of the speed. Ever see a mountain stream.

 

[JB]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Not necessarily, TXS.<br /><br />I have seen runnning streams when the air temp was -20F. Water scooped fom the streams solidifies almost immediately. Didn't measure the water temp, but according to PBS running water, below 32F, undermines some glaciers, causing them to collapse. <br /><br />No question that homo-sapien technology and overpopulation have damaged the planet. We may be the worst thing that ever happened to Earth.<br /><br />Back to the point of my post: A rant against NBC (and mass media in general) slanting the "news" to sensationalize, rather than inform.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

I'd like to share a...revelation I had, during my time here. <br /><br />It came to me when I tried to...classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with <br />the surrounding environment but...you humans do not. You move to an area...and you multiply...until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to...spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? <br /><br />A virus. Humans beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet...

 

[Scaaty]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> And water becomes a solid at under 32 degrees regardless of the speed. Ever see a mountain stream.

Sure have.....frozen edges and flowing middle. Now, can you explain your way out of this one?

 

[Scaaty]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /> There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? <br /><br />A virus. Humans beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet...

Hate to say it, but you are right. Seems like every other living thing adapts to its surroundings, and lives in peace (except for the animal chain thingy), but we keep bucking Mother Nature, and boy, can she buck back! Anyway, all it would take is one good sized asteroid, and kiss your butt goodbye

 

[12Footer]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

I won't deny the earth isn't getting warmer. I just laugh out loud at the claims that MAN has had a noticeble effect one way or the other on this natural cycle.<br />So from those of you who believe it is my SUV making hurricanes, explain why MARS is currently experiencing "global warming too".<br />Does Haliburton have a refinery on Mars Cheney hasn't told us about? Things that make ya go "hmmmmm".<br />"Ground control to Major Tom.<br />Take your protien pills and put your gas mask on".

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

commencing countdown... woops, link doesn't work.<br /><br />Are we really getting closer to the sun ?

 

[jtexas]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

12-footer's link <br /><br /><br />excerpt<br />

The observations also showed an annual 10-foot erosion in the snow cap at the South Pole.<br /><br />The cap is made of frozen carbon dioxide, the chief ingredient of the Martian atmos- phere.<br /><br />"The significance is that Mars is experiencing climate change, or has experienced climate change, because the present atmospheric conditions are not conducive to the formation of all that frozen carbon dioxide," Malin said. "Sometime in the distant past, Mars was colder. Subsequent to that, it has warmed, and we are seeing the earlier deposits erode away."<br /><br />The scientists said the causes and time frame of the Martian climate change are not clear.<br /><br />

 

[JB]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

"I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with <br />the surrounding environment but...you humans do not."<br /><br />Wrong. Humans without "health care", technology, religion and resulting overpopulation and overexploitation of the environment have lived in equilibrium with their environment for a few million years. <br /><br />Only in the past few thousand years or so have we, at the behest of religious leaders, considered ourselves "special", God-like rulers of the earth with everything put there for our convenience and use. We respect, nay worship, human life and treat all other forms of life as trivial.<br /><br />It confuses me that people who claim to believe in a heavenly afterlife fight like demons and spend millions to avoid dying as nature demands.<br /><br />Yes, all of my girls and their life partners are involved in health care. Yes, I would have died four or five times before this without the "wonders" of modern medicine. That doesn't change my convictions, it enhances them.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

JB<br /> yep<br /> but it seems sometimes the warming can be rapid cooling. as evidenced by some of the frozen wolly mammoths with undigested food in the stomach. something cooled the planet very rapidly and kept it that way. otherwise they would have decomposed along the past 1000 years or so. my self I believe a major volcanic eruption or impact did it. same as the dinosaur extinction. otherwise you would not have so many preserved species in the same strata of varying ages. had they died natually scavengers from bacteria to Trex type eaters would have made quick work of anything laying on the surface. they had to have been buried alive, or recently dead, and covered to protect from bacteria and scavengers. a truly massive eruption or a massive impact would have the ability to shift the earth on its axis, that would end most life forms rapidly due to adaptability propblems. even the quake last christmas made old mamma earth shudder on its axis. and evidence of bigger events in the earths past are evident

 

[PW2]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

>QUOTE<br />Your risk matrix is fine assuming it costs nothing to do "something." Of course you can't evaluate the cost effectiveness of "something" without estimating the consequences of "nothing." <br />>END<br /><br />No, I haven't consider that cost. I always assume that we should leave things as we found them, and that includes the earth. We simply have historically understated the cost of doing what we've been doing, by not including the rehab cost.<br /><br /><br />Quote><br />Also in scenario 3 have you considered the possibly negative consequence from doing the wrong thing.<br />END><br /><br />No, we know what constitutes greenhouse gasses, and we know how to limit them, or at least to begin to limit them. While that may or may not stop the problem, it cannot be the "wrong" thing to return the planet to how we found it.<br /><br />Quote >><br />One question: if this is "Complex science" not lending itself to "simplistic black and white solutions" how did it get to be a "no-brainer"?<br /><br />See explainations above. It should be a no-brainer to spend what it takes to limit as much as possible our impact on the environment on general principle. That it may reverse a problem is simply an added bonus. We ought not to need a specific reason to clean up after ourselves.

 

[treedancer]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Has anybody thought how much electricity it takes to fuel the expanding news media including the talk shows? Probably takes at least one nuclear power plant to power NBC alone.

 

[jtexas]

Re: National Biased Company strikes again.

Originally posted by treedancer:<br /> Has anybody thought how much electricity it takes to fuel the expanding news media including the talk shows? Probably takes at least one nuclear power plant to power NBC alone.

I was taught that the news media is self-sufficient, running on its own hot air and methane gas...