Newbie with gel coat ?

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Thanks for the advice. Here's another question.
My plan is to mount the metal seat bases to that separate wood piece. I was planning on mounting the metal base with stainless bolts and t- nuts through the wood base. The holes and t-nuts will have to be drilled and placed before glueing and glassing.
What is the best method of keeping the holes clear and no resin clogging the holes?

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

WoG, thanks for the instructions on fitting patch piece and using cleats. Pics attached to show what I did and how it turned out. Seems pretty solid right now.
Started working on seat placement and height. Had to cut pedestals down, now as low as can go and still use swivel lock( which I want to keep). It seems I will have the top of my head above the windshield. Not sure if this will be a bad thing or good thing. I always seemed to ride on top of old seats so should be good thing.
Still need to complete wood base piece, then start glassing everything.

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Couple pics of seat. One shows how low pedestal is. You can make out the lock and how it is at its lowest possible spot. The other pic is from when I was playing with location.
Man, this is going to open up a lot of floor space. Already seems like it will be easier to move around.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Nice work. I like the seats. You'll be on the water in no time.

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Making progress. Cut, drilled holes, and applied resin to bases. Applied peanut butter around patches.

Question- I am assuming the peanut butter and patch work need to be smooth prior to glassing over it. I have been grinding trying to make it look and feel right. Is this the correct method, or will glassing help with the smoothness.
I am under the impression the smoother the deck the better the gel coat will look and feel.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

You're correct Make it as smooth as you can. Bases look good

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

I apologize if these are silly questions but I have two.
What does the term" fairing" mean? I keep reading where it is used as a verb, but can't find what is being done when you "fair".
And I read that when laying fiberglass, you want csm to be the last layer that will actually be touching the gelcoat. It will provide a smoother look once gelcoat applied. Is this true?
Again remember, I am new to this, be kind.( haha)

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Fairing a surface is to make the surface flush. In case of a repair, fairing the repair area means make it look like it is a part of the original surface by making it as flat or adheres to the curvature as the original surface. If the repair area you want to fair is above the surrounding surface, you need to sand it down. If it recessed, you need to use filler that is designed for the task at hand (structural, above water line, under water line, cosmetic, etc). After the filler cures, apply a fairing compound. There are a lot of marine grade fairing compounds out there and you can also make your own by mixing poly resin and Phenolic Micro Balloons. Filling/Fairing compounds are like paste. You apply them with a plastic spreader and - specially fairing compounds - sand them smooth after curing. Pretty much like Bondo for automotive use. You also can apply some of these fairing compounds by spraying them such as Duratec Gray Surfacing Primer.
As far as the CSM for final layer, I am not sure about that even though I heard it hear couple of times. CSM can cure to a messy looking surface and it will require quite a bit of sanding before it is ready for a finish. If you will end up fairing the surface anyway, 1708 is good enough for a final layer. If you are looking for a real smooth surface, apply 6oz cloth as you final layer. I would suggest you experiment with the 3 finishes and see which one will meet your needs. Best of luck to you

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Fairing a surface is to make the surface flush. In case of a repair, fairing the repair area means make it look like it is a part of the original surface by making it as flat or adheres to the curvature as the original surface. If the repair area you want to fair is above the surrounding surface, you need to sand it down. If it recessed, you need to use filler that is designed for the task at hand (structural, above water line, under water line, cosmetic, etc). After the filler cures, apply a fairing compound. There are a lot of marine grade fairing compounds out there and you can also make your own by mixing poly resin and Phenolic Micro Balloons. Filling/Fairing compounds are like paste. You apply them with a plastic spreader and - specially fairing compounds - sand them smooth after curing. Pretty much like Bondo for automotive use. You also can apply some of these fairing compounds by spraying them such as Duratec Gray Surfacing Primer.

I have a follow up question. Would resin mixed with silica powder be considered a a fairing compound? The other day I was working on the boat and found a knot hole in the wood that was not flush. I was working with PB and was out of fiberglass pieces, so I mixed in some resin and silica to a thick consistency and filled in the hole that way. Is that ok?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Yep but... It's a lot harder to sand and "Fair" than using the ballons or Glass bubbles.

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Yep but... It's a lot harder to sand and "Fair" than using the ballons or Glass bubbles.

Balloons? Glass bubbles?
This mixture I used seems to sand ok. Lot of dust from a small area though.
Is the mixture of resin and silica durable? Strong?
When you guys sand to smooth are you using just regular sandpaper, or is there something special I should look for?

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Balloons? Glass bubbles?
This mixture I used seems to sand ok. Lot of dust from a small area though.
Is the mixture of resin and silica durable? Strong?
When you guys sand to smooth are you using just regular sandpaper, or is there something special I should look for?

Durable and strong, No. The addition of Colloidal Silica (a.k.a CAB-O-SIL) is for viscosity increase only; in other words, to make the resin thicker. What you end up with is the same resin ? more or less as brittle and weak as it is without glass ? just thicker. If you will glass over this knot hole, I think it would be fine. If you are a PITA perfectionist like me, give it couple of hits with a hammer to get it out and redo it the right way.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

As I meander through the Iboats forum on my day off ..

Balloons? Glass bubbles?
This mixture I used seems to sand ok. Lot of dust from a small area though.
Is the mixture of resin and silica durable? Strong?
When you guys sand to smooth are you using just regular sandpaper, or is there something special I should look for?

Micro B's or Bubbs are considered a Fairing additive yes. Cabosil is more of a structural additive and will cure rock hard. You have to consider what compound you want to apply to match the same hardness around your repair. If your putty is too hard you will sand a dish around your repair before it gets Fair. You also have to consider what your going to topcoat with.

I have been saying this for years .. Pick your topcoat ( gel or paint ) and work backwards to your starting point. If its gel then you have basically anything in the book you can use. If its Paint then you have to consider other factors such as primers and compatibility.

Cabosil is the Killer/King of fillers. Add some chopped up glass ( I only use CSM scissored up ) and you have some a major structural filler for small holes and fills as long as its used correctly.

The ONLY time I ever use compounds like micro B's or other light fairing compounds is with setting stringers or working with Paint Repairs.

Hope this helps ..

YD.

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

As I meander through the Iboats forum on my day off ..



Micro B's or Bubbs are considered a Fairing additive yes. Cabosil is more of a structural additive and will cure rock hard. You have to consider what compound you want to apply to match the same hardness around your repair. If your putty is too hard you will sand a dish around your repair before it gets Fair. You also have to consider what your going to topcoat with.

I have been saying this for years .. Pick your topcoat ( gel or paint ) and work backwards to your starting point. If its gel then you have basically anything in the book you can use. If its Paint then you have to consider other factors such as primers and compatibility.

Cabosil is the Killer/King of fillers. Add some chopped up glass ( I only use CSM scissored up ) and you have some a major structural filler for small holes and fills as long as its used correctly.

The ONLY time I ever use compounds like micro B's or other light fairing compounds is with setting stringers or working with Paint Repairs.

Hope this helps ..

YD.

Thanks for the info. I never considered cutting up some CSM to add. My project is coming along and the only thing I foresee I need PB for anymore is to glue wood bases to deck. Well, I used up most of my chopped up glass that I ordered. So when it came time to fill in little holes, I didn't want to use all my chopped glass and have to order more, only to need a small amount. So that's where I improvised and just added cabosil. Seemed to work well, sanded well, cured strong( I think).
For what it's worth, I will be gel coating the deck. Hope what I have so far is appropriate.

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

His all. Been awhile since last update. Not a lot of time to work on boat with kid baseball starting. But I have done a little bit.
The new floor patches are glued in, one layer of roven woven, 1 layer csm. Sanded down then glued( PB) bases down.
Test fitted to make sure seats would be in good spot before and after. Then 2 layers of csm over bases.
With test fit seems strong enough so 2 layers of glass should really keep things good.
Sanded down everything. Now floor seems smooth when sliding hand over.
My question is, how smooth do I need to get? I have read/ heard that its all about prep work. So how smooth do I really need to get all?
What else should I do to prep for gel coat?
Here's a pic to show where I'm at. Thanks.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

You need to get it very smooth .. but dont worry about that right now.

You are going to roll with gel ? .. you should lay down a few layers of gel to Base coat it. Then its back to sanding .. and more prep for your final coat of gel.

Right now you cant see how much more sanding you have to do .. so consider the first few coats of gel 'primer coats' .

YD.

 

[gatorfan6908]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Slayer... looks like you have made some great strides with your project! Allow me to add my opinions, however take them at face value, as I am not an expert by any stretch... Your glassing looks great from what I can tell, and your sanding looks fine also. As far as applying the gel, well that is the point I am at in my resto. So as one amateur to another, I'll give you what I have learned so far.

1. I am rolling the gel on. I started with a 4" roller with a 1/2" nap. I didn't like this so much, as it seemed to pick up more of the gel than roll it out, especially after it started to kick a little. So I switched to a 4" roller with a 1/4" nap. This has given me a lot better finish and I am satisfied with the finish.

2. Be sure and buy plenty of supplies, (rollers, mixing sticks, pint/quart mixing cups, gloves, etc..). The most important out of these I would say is the rollers. Each pint I would mix would burn another roller. While you can mix more in one batch, such as a quart instead of a pint, I didn't do that because I didn't know how fast I can work and I didn't want the gel to kick in the pot before I get it all on the deck.

3. Be thorough with your estimates for how much product you will need. I just bit the bullet and bought a 5gal. bucket of gel for around 180$ with shipping added on after that. The way it is looking, I will have about 3 gal. left over with no more boat to work on when I am all said and done.

I don't have any expert tip for you question on how smooth to get it... We can leave that up to the experts. Anyway, I'm done rambling for now. Best of luck to you.

Also... just a tip... if you are using photobucket for your pics, try and use the IMG code to post the pics in these forums. Makes it a lot easier to see them. PM me if you have any questions.

 

[Slayer315]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Thanks guys,
YD- yes I am going to roll it. When you say lay down a couple layers for prime coat, how thin or thick should these layers be?
Gatorfan- thanks for the words. Is there a special type of roller got have? From some reading it sounds like there are some rollers that leave hairs in the gel. Is that a particular type of roller, or more just the nap?

Hers an update for the day. Well more of a fix something stupid I did. When I laid the glass down over the bases I wasn't sure what to do about the screw holes. At the last minute I just threw some wadded up paper in the holes. Not sure what I was thinking at the time.
Well now I wanted to clean the holes out cuz I was afraid of not having them marked appropriately for gel. Well who would have guessed. Paper soaks up resin just like glass. Again not sure what I was thinking.
Anyway, I used a tap and die set and some acetone to get all the paper/ resin out of the holes. Seems ok now, but man what a pita.
More sanding followed. I still need to fill a couple holes in side where previous owner installed cup holders. Then I guess it's the first prime layer of gel, if I understand YD correctly.
That's again.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

Lay down as thick as you can with a roller .. then do some more sanding .. You should Know when your ready to topcoat ..

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Newbie with gel coat ?

I didn't go back and re-read the whole thread, but how smooth do want the surface to be?

If you're rolling it, it will leave a fairly lumpy surface, to help overcome that after rolling on a coat or two and letting it get hard, use a squeegee (large plastic Bondo spreader will work) and apply a layer with that, it will fill the low spots and not add anything to the high spots so it will give a rather smooth surface, at least compared to the rolled surface. This will eliminate a great deal of sanding.