OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

[109jb]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Thats what I mean IF is was the same naptha as coleman lantern fuel. Its $8.00 a gal at Fleet Farm. A Gallon of oil another $8.00 and a couple bottles af rubbing alcohol for what $3 or $4 1 stop at Wallyworld or Fleet farm you got it all. You just made your 20 cans for about $25.00. IF IF IF !!!!

Plain and simple the hassle isn't worth it to me. My time is worth more to me than saving the little bit I would running around and then mixing the stuff up. And maybe not to you, but saving even the full amount I spend per year is a little bit. 20 cans per year=$120/year=$10/month. I think I can spare the $10 a month and not mix it myself. Just my opinion.

 

[109jb]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Rubbing alcohol is a mixture of IPA and water so you wouldn't want to be using that.

And by the way, gasoline already has naptha in it.

I have not been using SeaFoam for 20+ years either and been saving my money. The only people that SeaFoam benefits are the people that sell it.

So you are basing your opinion on ABSOLUTELY zero experience. Have I got that right???

You do realize that Mopar and GM both sell de-carboning products used in a similar way to sea foam and they both contain Naphtha. These are the guys that make the cars. Oh the formulations are somewhat different, but the results (de-carboning) and the way they are used is the same. These products are used in the dealer service shops.

 

[srimes]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

you can be "denatured" alcohol. That doesn't have much water in it.

 

[NYBo]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

you can be "denatured" alcohol. That doesn't have much water in it.

Isopropyl alcohol gas line antifreeze would be perfect.

 

[1960vw]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Local Kragen occassionally has a coupon two for one. Waiting for the next sale. Been using it in my motorcycle, car (2) and now my boat. Love that snakeoil! Will keep on using it !!!!

 

[paultjohnson]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Local Kragen occassionally has a coupon two for one. Waiting for the next sale. Been using it in my motorcycle, car (2) and now my boat. Love that snakeoil! Will keep on using it !!!!

Thats awesome 2 fer 1 I never see that here..About $6.48 a can is as low as I ever see it .LOL on lovin that snake oil

 

[bruceb58]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

So you are basing your opinion on ABSOLUTELY zero experience. Have I got that right???

You do realize that Mopar and GM both sell de-carboning products used in a similar way to sea foam and they both contain Naphtha. These are the guys that make the cars. Oh the formulations are somewhat different, but the results (de-carboning) and the way they are used is the same. These products are used in the dealer service shops.

Do you realize that the GM top end cleaner is no longer made. It also never had oil in it like SeaFoam has. I actually have a lot of experience with auotomotive electronics. I am an electrical engineerand and used to work for Delco Electronics, a division of GM at the time(now Delphi) and worked occasionally at the GM proving grounds in Arizona. Did a lot of work with engine control computers. I worked directly with the guys that did engine control management. Is that enough experience for you?

When I referred to stopping the O2 sensor immediately was the post about the guy sucking it straight from the can into the Lexus engine from the youtube video. There are tons of cases where cars were throwing codes after people sucked this stuff into their engines.

If you are putting SeaFoam in to clean your injection system, why waste your time with Naptha anyway. It is not that great of a solvent. Use something with polyetheramine in it which is way better.

 

[DuckHunterJon]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Since there are lot's of opinions out there, I have another one. I've been using SeaFoam for years, but only as a fuel stabilizer. Why - because it says so on the can. Just curious what others think of it as a stabilizer. Supposedly easier on o2 sensors and spark plugs than stabil - and lasts longer than stabil. Any thoughts?

 

[DuckHunterJon]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Forgot to add - Autozone carries it in gallon containers for $49 around here. Way cheaper than buying it 16 oz at a time (at $9 a can).

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

I get it at walmart for $6.50 a can. A gallon would be $52.00

 

[109jb]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Do you realize that the GM top end cleaner is no longer made.

Yes, I was aware that GM disontinued Their TOP engine cleaner, but did you know it was replaced by GM upper engine and fuel injector cleaner. Therefore GM does still have a product for FI cleaning and engine de-carb.

It also never had oil in it like SeaFoam has. I actually have a lot of experience with auotomotive electronics. I am an electrical engineerand and used to work for Delco Electronics, a division of GM at the time(now Delphi) and worked occasionally at the GM proving grounds in Arizona. Did a lot of work with engine control computers. I worked directly with the guys that did engine control management. Is that enough experience for you?

Actually, it isn't enough experience. Hell I worked on the design of the F-35 at Lockheed Martin, but that doesn't qualify me to comment about how to maintain the engine on it. In the same way, you do seem to have enough qualification to comment about engine computer controls, but those are a far cry from the mechanical aspects of the engine. You also never said whether during your work at GM if they had tested Sea Foam. I assume they didn't otherwise that would be a big part of your argument. Therefore you still don't have any first hand experience as far as I can tell.

When I referred to stopping the O2 sensor immediately was the post about the guy sucking it straight from the can into the Lexus engine from the youtube video. There are tons of cases where cars were throwing codes after people sucked this stuff into their engines.

I agree with you that just sucking a bunch through the brake vacuum port isn't how I would do it, or how I do use it. However, that doesn't mean the product is useless. Also, many of the cases I have seen where people complain about thrown codes or bad O2 sensors comes from those that had bad running cars to begin with. If it was bad before, then why is it a surprise after? Again, I will agree that sucking it through the vacuum line is probably ill advised. I use a pump spray bottle and spray right into the intake or carb throat.

On top of that, your argument is that it is bad for the sensors. Even so, many (I'd suspect the majority) of the engines used in our boats don't have any sensors like that to get damaged. The exception would be newer engines, and I'll admit that I don't know enough about the newer clean burn outboards to say if they have O2 sensors or not. Certainly any carbureted engine isn't going to have an O2 sensor or any other sensor that could be damaged by using Sea Foam. Again though, I have had no problem using Sea Foam in my own fuel injected cars.

If you are putting SeaFoam in to clean your injection system, why waste your time with Naptha anyway. It is not that great of a solvent. Use something with polyetheramine in it which is way better.

My main uses of Sea Foam are for fogging, and fuel stabilization, and occasionally for de-carboning the upper end of an engine. Usually for de-carboning I just use water. I do use it occasionally as a fuel system cleaner and have found it works well. Last year I bought a motorcycle that would not run below about 1300-1400 rpm and had to have the choke on a bit at that (this was fresh gas by the way). I ran about 2 tanks of Sea Foam treated fuel through it and after that it was idling without choke at 800 rpm. I continued the Sea Foam for another couple tanks and then discontinued except for the final tank of the season. I did the same on my father's 60 hp Johnson outboard after it sat for 3 years due to health problems. Idled like garbage, but after 1 Sea-Foam treated tank of fresh fuel all was well. All I know is it works for me.

My other use is as a fogging agent. As I said I use a pump spray bottle and spray into the intake/carbs. I feel it prudent to add that every 2-stroke maintenance manual I have, and I have them for every 2 stroke engine I own, says to fog the engine for off-season storage. Mercury fogging oil is a aerosol of propane, butane, and naphtha. Other brands have a combination of Naphtha, Naphthenic oils (Pale oil), and other various additives. These are the same major ingredients in Sea Foam. 2-stroke engines have ball and roller bearings compared to the 4-stroke engines plain bearings. IMO, on the 2-strokes it is much more important to fog because the bearings can develop rust. This is because the normal use engine oil is first of all mixed with gas which as pointed out acts as a solvent and helps wash the lubricating oil off of the bearings. The bearings themselves have large spaces between the rollers/balls (cage area), and this allows much of remaining oil to run off of the rollers/balls. The 4 stroke maintains a film of engine oil between the bearing and the crankshaft because of the very small running tolerances between the components.

Finally, I use it as a fuel stabilizer. Manuufacturers also recommend this. Not much else to say here except that I have never had a problem with the Sea Foam treated fuel stored for off season (usually 6 to 9 months depending on the engine).

It is enough for me that the manufacturers of my 2-stroke engines say to use fogging oil and fuel stabilizer. I choose Sea-Foam because of my personal experience and personal satisfaction with the product.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

You can use whatever you want and if you think it helps you more power to you. Will be interesting now that there are O2 sensors on marine inboard engines if there will be a recommendations on the use of fuel additives.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

All been discussed here in-depth before.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

I thought this was an interesting read:

Homebrew Sea Foam
http://hildstrom.com/projects/seafoam/index.html

 

[paultjohnson]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

I thought this was an interesting read:

Homebrew Sea Foam
http://hildstrom.com/projects/seafoam/index.html

VERY VERY Informative/interesting Thanks for the post !!!

 

[SuperNova]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Actually ruins them. Say good bye to your O2 sensors and your catalytic converter when all the oil hits them.

Personally, it is poor economy using any snake oils, especially SeaFoam.

I strongly agree with both of these statements. I am a professional, factory trained techinician who holds master certifications from ASE, Chrysler, and Volvo. I have been repairing people's stupidity for better than 22 years now.....sad though that may be..

Rubbing alcohol is a mixture of IPA and water so you wouldn't want to be using that.

And by the way, gasoline already has naptha in it.

I have not been using SeaFoam for 20+ years either and been saving my money. The only people that SeaFoam benefits are the people that sell it.

Exactly right

All been discussed here in-depth before.

Thank you for ending an already tedious, been-here-before discussion. A lot of time could be saved if people would learn to use the search function.

 

[109jb]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

I strongly agree with both of these statements. I am a professional, factory trained techinician who holds master certifications from ASE, Chrysler, and Volvo. I have been repairing people's stupidity for better than 22 years now.....sad though that may be..

Exactly right

Thank you for ending an already tedious, been-here-before discussion. A lot of time could be saved if people would learn to use the search function.

All of this talk about O2 sensors and catalytic converters really doesn't mean squat for the majority of the pleasure boats out there. In the future maybe so, but right now the majority of the boats running around on the water are carbureted with the exception of some of the newer stuff. Maybe SeaFoam will kill O2 sensors, or catalytic converters, but my experience has not shown this to be true on my cars. As I said though, most of the time I just use water for de-carboning the upper parts of the engine. I have read some cases where the user has blamed the product for damaging components, but in the cases I saw, the car was running poorly before using it. If that is the case then which came first, the failure of the component, or theuse of the Sea foam??

Snake oil - Do you claim that fuel doesn't go bad and need to be stabilized for long term storage? One of the uses of Sea Foam is as a stabilizer of fuel. It has ingredients common to just about every fuel stabilizer out there so are all of them snake oil.

Also, fogging of engines for long term storage. All of my 2-stroke engines are either open loop EFI or carbureted and the maintenance manuals for every one of them says to fog the engine for long term storage. Looking at some of the fogging oils, including the Mercury fogging oil, the contents are mainly Naphtha or Naphtha based oils, same as the main ingredients in Sea Foam. I use Sea Foam to fog my engines based on the similarity of the ingredients. Are you saying that the OEM manufacturers of the stuff I own are wrong and that I shouldn't be fogging my engines even though the OEM says to??

Finally, as a fuel system cleaner I have experienced the results of using Sea Foam. Poor running engines have improved to the point of my not having to pull carbs to clean/rebuild. Maybe another product would have done the same or even better, but I have experienced the results of using Sea Foam and have been satisfied. The improvements have been drastic from dismal idle and off-idle performance to running smoothly after a few tanks of fuel. I have experienced these results several times. I do think that many products on the market these days are indeed snake oil, but I have experienced the benefits of Sea Foam first hand and will continue to use it.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

All of this talk about O2 sensors and catalytic .......... ............ If that is the case then which came first, the failure of the component, or theuse of the Sea foam??

I don't really want to get into a big discussion with you on this. Suffice it to say that all that excess oil is indeed detrimental to the longevity of O2 sensors and the excess hydrocarbons can cause the Cat. Converter to overheat and initiate cracks of the substrate as well as melting the substrate in extreme instances. If you don't recognize these basic realities, then you need to educate yourself a little more before you initiate such a discussion.

Snake oil - Do you claim that fuel doesn't go bad and need to be stabilized for long term storage? One of the uses of Sea Foam is as a stabilizer of fuel. It has ingredients common to just about every fuel stabilizer out there so are all of them snake oil.

Yes....define long term. I regularly store fuel for 3-6 months at a time with no noticeable deterioration. Small (3-5 gal.) quantities as well as large (20-105 gal)

Also, fogging of engines for long term storage. All of my 2-stroke engines are either open loop EFI or carbureted and the maintenance manuals for every one of them says to fog the engine for long term storage. Looking at some of the fogging oils, including the Mercury fogging oil, the contents are mainly Naphtha or Naphtha based oils, same as the main ingredients in Sea Foam. I use Sea Foam to fog my engines based on the similarity of the ingredients. Are you saying that the OEM manufacturers of the stuff I own are wrong and that I shouldn't be fogging my engines even though the OEM says to??

Once again....define long-term storage....I do not fog any of my engines that get put up for 3-6 months at a time. Come to think of it my camaro sits for close to or better than a year at a time and I don't fog that engine or stabilize that fuel system...yet it starts when I need it to.

Finally, as a fuel system cleaner I have experienced the results of using Sea Foam. Poor running engines have improved to the point of my not having to pull carbs to clean/rebuild. Maybe another product would have done the same or even better, but I have experienced the results of using Sea Foam and have been satisfied. The improvements have been drastic from dismal idle and off-idle performance to running smoothly after a few tanks of fuel. I have experienced these results several times. I do think that many products on the market these days are indeed snake oil, but I have experienced the benefits of Sea Foam first hand and will continue to use it.

Sure it cleans, but to what ill effect that you don't even have a clue about. Maybe accelerated cylinder bore wear due to the cleaning effects washing the oil off your cylinder walls....maybe accelerated valve stem and guide wear from the oil being washed from where it is needed by the extra detergents being introduced with the incoming air/fuel charge? Who knows? Have you run the stuff in one of two identical engines with identical mileage and then torn them both down at the same time to check for carbon build-up, or lack thereof? Or measured for wear differences? Watched to see how long the sensors and converter lasted in them and compared differences? I highly doubt it...so your opinion is just as subjective as ours. You swear by it...and so do millions of others...and that is just fine. Just don't do it blindly.

It's not Snake oil because it doesn't work......it's snake oil because it hasn't been truly and fully tested...both its positive effects as well as its possible negative side effects. Remember, manufacturers don't get rich by telling you the bad things about their product.

 

[109jb]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

I don't really want to get into a big discussion with you on this. Suffice it to say that all that excess oil is indeed detrimental to the longevity of O2 sensors and the excess hydrocarbons can cause the Cat. Converter to overheat and initiate cracks of the substrate as well as melting the substrate in extreme instances. If you don't recognize these basic realities, then you need to educate yourself a little more before you initiate such a discussion.

The intentional omission of select parts of my post leads me to believe that you have no answer for those parts, so lets re0iterate.

Not that I believe it, but lets just say that Sea Foam does kill sensors and catalytic converters. Why should someone with an engine without sensors or catalytic converters (the majority of current pleasure boat owners) care if Sea Foam kills them?

Yes....define long term. I regularly store fuel for 3-6 months at a time with no noticeable deterioration. Small (3-5 gal.) quantities as well as large (20-105 gal)

Then you disagree with all of these manufacturers (BTW, several define long term as more than 2 months):

From a random Honda outboard engine manual (model BF200A/BF225A):

Gasoline will oxidize and deteriorate in storage. Old gasoline will cause hard starting, and it leaves gum deposits that clog the fuel system.

Drain the fuel tank into an approved gasoline container, or if you need to store fuel in the fuel tank, you can extend fuel storage life by filling the fuel tank with fresh gasoline and adding a fuel stabilizer that is formulated for that purpose.


From the storage instructions for Mercury Verado 4 cyl outboards (picked at random)

Portable Fuel Tank - Pour the required amount of Fuel System Treatment and Stabilizer (follow instructions on container) into fuel tank. Tip fuel tank back and forth to mix stabilizer with the fuel.

Permanently Installed Fuel Tank - Pour the required amount of FuelSystem Treatment and Stabilizer (follow instructions on container) into a separate container and mix with approximately one liter (one quart) of gasoline. Pour this mixture into fuel tank.


From The Mercruiser FAQ section on ethanol blended fuel:

Follow the instructions for normal storage preparation found in the Operation, Maintenance & Warranty manual. When preparing to store a boat for extended periods of two months or more, it is best to completely remove all fuel from the tank. If it is difficult or not possible to remove the fuel, maintaining a full tank of fuel with a fuel stabilizer added to provide fuel stability and corrosion protection is recommended.


From my Arctic Cat Snowmobile maintenance manual (storage section)

Fill the gas tank to its rated capacity; then add Arctic Cat Fuel Stabilizer (p/n 0638-165) to th gas tank following directions on the container for the stabilizer/gasoline ratio. Tighten the gas tank cap securely.

Once again....define long-term storage....I do not fog any of my engines that get put up for 3-6 months at a time. Come to think of it my camaro sits for close to or better than a year at a time and I don't fog that engine or stabilize that fuel system...yet it starts when I need it to.

For this one I am not even going to bother posting excerpts from manuals which I easily could. Again, you obviously know more than the manufacturers. In reality you may have just "got away with it", or not live in a climate that necessitates it. The fact that you don't fog and haven't had any problems does not prove that fogging is not a beneficial thing to do. A true example: When I was dating my wife I once found that there was so little oil in her car that it didn't show on the dip stick. I changed it for her and the car was fine. Obviously this means that maintaining a proper oil level isn't important. Right??

Sure it cleans, but to what ill effect that you don't even have a clue about. Maybe accelerated cylinder bore wear due to the cleaning effects washing the oil off your cylinder walls....maybe accelerated valve stem and guide wear from the oil being washed from where it is needed by the extra detergents being introduced with the incoming air/fuel charge? Who knows? Have you run the stuff in one of two identical engines with identical mileage and then torn them both down at the same time to check for carbon build-up, or lack thereof? Or measured for wear differences? Watched to see how long the sensors and converter lasted in them and compared differences? I highly doubt it...so your opinion is just as subjective as ours. You swear by it...and so do millions of others...and that is just fine. Just don't do it blindly.

This just seems like a feeble attempt to bolster your opinion. Accelerated wear by adding a lubricant to the fuel?? Ill effects from Naphtha, pale oil, and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)?? Naphtha is used in the production of gas, Pale oil is a naphtha based oil, and IPA has been used just about forever as a gas line antifreeze. Nothing there that screams that it will eat a hole though the bottom of the block, burn a hole in a piston crown, or even hurt a gasket. I have used Sea Foam extensively and have never experienced any problem attributable to Sea Foam, only benefits. Have you any proof of the detrimental wear effects that you imply here? I'm guessing no or you would have stated the proof.

It's not Snake oil because it doesn't work......it's snake oil because it hasn't been truly and fully tested...both its positive effects as well as its possible negative side effects. Remember, manufacturers don't get rich by telling you the bad things about their product.

So then you aren't saying it doesn't work, you are just saying that it hasn't been tested to your satisfaction. That's fine. However, "snake oil" refers to something that is totally worthless, not to something simply not proven. I would argue that Sea Foam IS proven at least in some regards. It is certainly proven itself to me.

 

[CaptainSkip]

Re: OK Now do ya wanna know what SEA FOAM is made of???

Sea foam was a cheap fix for my chainsaw (sat too long without starting). It fired up but would die when throttled up. Eventually would not idle. Added SF and topped off with gas. Few more pulls and the carb cleared up and ran like a champ again.