Omc Cobra shift problems---- 5.7 1988

[ab59]

first run but shift problems re appeared . One time it shifts perfect and the next it won't come out of gear . Sure does run good though . Easily hits 44 mph @ WOT but don't know what it is supposed to run with a 5.7 . Not a drop of water in the bilge after 4 hrs.

https://youtu.be/_8ViB8fbTb4

 

[Lou C]

When you're trying to get neutral, are you sure the ESA is engaging? Does the idle drop to approx. 450 but the drive still does not come out of gear?

 

[ab59]

thanks for your continued response Lou-- I can't really hear what's happening with the ESA while the turtle shell is on the engine but it is not doing the same thing all the time. It will shift like it should one time and not the next time . As you know I have been over this thing a million times and found several things that were not right and repaired same . Sometimes getting this thing so close that I did not think it would be an ongoing problem but with it changing while in use I can't seem to pin the problem down.
When it began to hang in Forward gear I could shift back into gear and throttle up just a little and quickly shift back to Neutral and get it to come out of gear as it should but when trying to get back to Neutral from close to idle speeds it would hang in gear for different amounts of time. Makes docking an interesting prospect , good thing that there weren't many people at the ramp .
Another wrinkle is that the engine did not start once when I tried to restart while fishing . I checked all the wires and connections but did not see anything causing the problem and after 10 minutes it started right up and ran again with no problems . Operating temperature was at 160 and is the thermostat that I am running so it was not getting warm.
I am going to go ahead and see if I can run the boat by the OMC mechanic in the next town and see what he says but he is really busy and I'm no sure he would have the time to really go over the problem with me. Guess I may have to make an appointment with him for after the end of JULY.
This boat jumps up on plane quick and goes faster than I would ever need to go , would sure be nice to get these final bugs out .
I tried to edit the video of my first trip but somehow did not get the correct edited video posted but hopefully the next trip will go flawlessly. I posted a longer one on my regular Starcraft post.
I will call the mechanic in a few minutes and get the ball rolling. We will see .
thanks, Bruce

 

[Lou C]

I have to say where you are boating is really beautiful, and looks very different than what I have here in NY.....this is the view from my second story window early this AM....we got a visitor....he took a bath in the pool and then took off...maybe the fog got him mixed up lol....in the winter it looks totally different....
I'd want to make sure that the ESA is engaging 100%. I had trouble with my old switches either not triggering it or staying stuck on too long and replaced the switches and ESA a few years back. The button on the switch can get worn in a way that it may not engage, or gets stuck on.
Whenever you get it to the OMC guy, let us know what he says....very curious about this...

 

[ab59]

Dang Lou that is some beautiful views you have there as well. I take it that those images in the fog are boats on the water ? Looks like the local wildlife is about to adopt your pool as their summer home .
The lake I was at is a Volcanic rock scene , you can see the black volcanic bluff in the background that the lake gets it's name from. Full of fish too although you could not tell that by what I caught that day :lol: . Spent many days there when I was younger and used to fill the basket with Crappie and hooked one of the biggest catfish that I have ever had on the line at that lake. A beer or two too many got me so gung ho that I broke it off right at the shore line trying to horse it in . eh , who wants a 30 lb catfish anyway , he he.
I am taking the boat to the mechanic in the morning and I will either leave it there hoping that he can get a few minutes to fix it or maybe he can just look and see what the problem is and tell me how to fix it but one way or the other it's going to get fixed this time and for good I hope .

Bruce

 

[Lou C]

Ahh let us know what happens...
the water in the background leads out to Long Island Sound, its about a 30 min ride and there can be good fishing depending on the time of year (porgies, flounder, fluke, blue fish, sea bass). I only go out in the Sound on very calm days because it gets too rough for a non-self bailing 20'. Have fished half way across to Connecticut many times..

Hopefully the mechanic will get to the cause quickly and report back!

 

[blitz491]

Now I really feel bad for you:grumpy: I thought you may have solved this?

So Im not in anyway a boat expert guy but reading through the comments Im curious if you think you have narrowed this down to a mechanical issue or still considering if the electrical side (ESA) could be part of it?

I ask because you mentioned being from Northern part of Ca. when I first started trouble shooting mine I found a video about bypassing the ESA to diagnose the mechanical side of shifting and I have been able to email him (a very nice gentlemen) about my ESA system, that is how I got hereto this point:joyous: let me find and share the video link for you who knows it may help? and I can forward his info if you like?

 

[ab59]

thanks for your replies -- blitz491-- Post the link I would be interested in what it has to say. ESA in NEW and working so it's not the problem in itself.
LOU--- I just got back from the mechanic and did not leave the boat with him for these reasons.
First off after we talked a bit then he climbed in the boat and had me turn the prop as he shifted the TSC at the bracket with the cable loose from the bracket . He then had me hold pressure on the prop while he tried to shift to Neutral and then told me that the upper gears needed to be changed not because they were damaged but because he believed that they were the original type gear set that OMC later re-cut trying to find the reason for the gear set failures . It had been my understanding that the " New " gearing did nothing to stop the damage and that it turned out to be the TSC that was the problem not the gear set.
When I asked him how it was that the OD shifted flawlessly before I changed the TSC he just shrugged and said " why does it shift right sometimes and not all the time " ? He then looked up the price of the gearing that he said that I needed and it came in around 600 bucks plus incidentals . Then Labor would be at least 6 to 8 hrs and that I was looking at 1000 plus , minimum , for the job.
While he was looking up parts prices I began thinking , the OD is over 30 years old . Hmmm , so the gears set in the OD worked fine for 30 years somehow but now the mechanic says that's not possible because of the way the gears are cut. ?
I asked him how it could shift right every time before I changed the cable if the gears were the problem and again he simply said that they were the problem and that no adjustment of any kind would solve the shift problem.
I brought the boat home with me and did not leave it with him.
So I am back to square one on this project . I have decided to adjust the system to where it shifts in and out of Forward with no hesitation and settle for the little delay in it coming out of Reverse and that will have to do unless I can find a better solution to this puzzle
It is most certainly apparent that I don't quite understand all I know about what I'm doin . :frusty:

 

[Lou C]

He got it wrong and backwards. The upper gears were never changed, OMC changed the cut or angle of the lower gears (actually the ramps that engage with the sliding dog clutch) from 2* to 5* to keep it from jumping out of gear. BUT what they found was that the cables made by a supplier did not meet their spec and the supplier changed the spec without telling OMC. So, next came the cable recall and revised adjustment procedures. Now, if the drive jumps out of gear all the time then sure, the lower gears and sliding dog clutch should be replaced. But clearly that is not your problem. I have no idea whether mine has the original 2* or the revised 5* gears but it has the same OEM shift cable on it for....as long as I've had it and then some..
So...my suggestion is....when you feel like going at it again...is a new OEM shift cable...since that's what changed...before all this started.....even though you measured the drag...and it was OK...who knows what else could be going on....

 

[Lou C]

https://www.crowleymarine.com/johnson-evinrude/parts/55473.cfm?mdl=UUHSAD

shift cable is $184...imagine if this is all that it takes...to solve your problem...
also...did you make sure...your remote cable and remote are both good?

 

[Lou C]

http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/

I read this years ago it does not have the most up to date information but it has the history of the recall....

 

[ab59]

Thanks for your reply Lou -- I think that I got ahold of an old fashion , replace everything until you accidentally solve the problem , mechanic . He never even looked at the adjustment positions of the bracket before telling me that I needed more that a thousand dollars of unnecessary work done. Besides that , if I had another thousand plus to throw at this boat I would go to a Volvo outdrive .
Could a cable that is not binding cause this problem ? I still keep thinking that the problem is in the timing of the ESA interruption that is causing this as that would prevent the Drive from coming out of gear to Neutral in the same way wouldn't it ?
It's not that the cable is binding but that the OD does not want to come out of gear Immediately at the correct time and to me that says incorrect placement of the triggering device ie the cams that actuate the interrupter switch since we know that the ESA is in good working condition and that the switches also work .
I have noted that there seems to be slop in the system as well that does not seem right , perhaps this could be a contributing factor and as I re re re adjust the system again I will do my best to eliminate it although it would seem that if I make sure there is no slop going one direction there would be slop going the other so , I dunno . Something allows the the system to work as it should one time but not the next .
BUT if I have to , I will buy another OEM cable and install same , I guess the problem may be that the aftermarket cable is stretching instead of pulling it stiffly out of gear. I've been getting 200 dollard to death on this thing so I'm a little resistant to buy more until I'm satisfied that it can be nothing else .
I will go over everything again and see what I can do .
Good thing I have a wide stubborn streak or I would have done something drastic a long time ago.
thanks again----Bruce

 

[Lou C]

Ok I went and looked at the manual and here's what I am getting from it...
the ESA interrupt switch (what you need to work to get into neutral) is triggered by the load lever, and I recall seeing it move slowly when you shifted it in your vid...this really can only be the pivot for that lever, the shift cable, the pivot bell crank or the shift rod in the lower unit...

the ESA overstroke switch (which essentially turns off the ESA system when you shift into gear) is the one triggered by those cams. So if the cams were out of adjustment, then what could happen is a sticky shift cable/bell crank could keep the ESA triggered while you are in gear and this would result in the engine having no power at all.

So we are back to cable...bell crank....shift rod...The load lever has to move quickly enough to trigger the ESA at the right time....anything that slows it down...can cause the problem you have....intermittently....

 

[ab59]

Thanks for the reply Lou---This is the last time I am going to do the same thing and hope for a different outcome . One last try to get it right and if it continues to fail shifting to Neutral smoothly and on time I will buy another cable . OEM this time :biggrin1:

Bruce

 

[ab59]

Man , I may reserve a rubber room in the mental ward . I'm almost afraid to say this again but it shifts right ! The only thing that I did differently was put the old switches back in the bracket and pushed the shift arm adjustment a little more snugly down the slot . Everything else lined up and I did not have to adjust anything I went in and out of gears several times with no problems . I shut it down and waited about ten minutes as I went over everything I had done and re started the engine and when I shifted from forward I could really hear the engine slow as the stick returned to Neutral with no problems. Same for Reverse , I could hear the engine stumble as it shifted from reverse to Neutral . I shifted several more times with no problems and then returned home from the ramp.
I'm NOT saying it's fixed this time and am already planning another trip to the lake for a day .
I'm not going to hold my breath on this one but I sure hope the last adjustments stay good.

Bruce

 

[blitz491]

well good luck! I thought it was this thread I read about pushing the shift arm assembly as far in as possible? if holding the shift arm assembly more snug was it all along ill post a note on my bracket just to make sure!!!
Im just getting caught up reading let me check my bookmarks regarding bypassing the ESA it might have been the interrupter switch but give me a minute

John

 

[ab59]

Hey John-- be careful when you adjust the shift arm on the bracket , you don't want to " pre load " the shift arm. Evidently there is a fine line between too much and not enough tension on the end of the control cable . I think the idea is to just get all the slop out of the cables . When you've got it in reverse WOT and making the adjustment , watch the the springs and don't put much of a bind on them , you can try a few different positions on the slot to see which works best. These systems work for thousands of other boats so they have got to work for ours , it is gaining the understanding of how they work that seems to be the problem. In these cases ignorance is not bliss .
A.B.