Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

jonjohnson

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

What about at the prime bulb, is it clamped or one piece with the fuel line, could you be getting air there?
 

jakedaawg

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

put your tank and fuel line on your friends engine. If problem happens on his engine replace your tank and fuel line.
 

BonairII

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

put your tank and fuel line on your friends engine. If problem happens on his engine replace your tank and fuel line.

That's a good idea.

I'm guessing it's a bad primer bulb and/or bad tank vent.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Still hard to figure out what you have done and why.


Ok so heres the deal i started out with fuel hose and connectors from Academy Sports.

Who/what are they? What did you buy....and why? Did you buy a complete fuel line, or hose and connectors and assemble yourself? Are you sure the whole thing was genuine OMC?

We changed out the fuel pump at the same time and did a carb soak over night and rebuild,that didnt fix it

According to your posts, you changed the fuel pump twice. :confused:

so i changed out the fuel line connectors and that didnt help either

The ones you bought from Academy Sports? Were they new or used? If new, why did you suspect they were NFG?If used, not sure why you would buy used.

then we changed out the fuel lines in the motor and did away with the fuel connectors at the motor and tank,

Why did you do that? How are the fuel lines connected now? If you are changing/testing fuel lines at the pace you claim, how are you making the connections? The connections have to be air-tight. Any damage or scratches on the barbed fittings can cause air leaks.
Can you describe the hose and connections, from the gas in the tank right to the engine?

i put in a brass 90 on the tank and hooked the hose to it then i ran the tank hose threw the motor straight into the fuel pump to see if it stopped showing air bubbles and running right but that didnt help either,

What sort of a fitting are you describing? How does the in-tank fuel pickup attach? Is the tank a metal one or plastic?

so i changed out the fuel line with Baracade fuel hose and put a diffrent prime bulb in,still showing air bubbles in line from fuel pump to carb,
Baracade fuel hose?
Aftermarket prime bulbs are notorious for causing problems. What was wrong with the original? Any chance thecheck valve is not functioning properly?
According to what you have posted, you have been able to find at least one tank/fuel line combination that works. That is your diagnostic success story.
Now you just have to restore that system to OEM configuration and bypass your "aftermarket" redesign.
This thread underscores the efficacy of owning and using an OEM manual. The troubleshooting steps are pretty systematic and will usually help avoid simply throwing parts at a problem and hoping you throw the right one.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,you're a hero

Re: Please help Figure this one out,you're a hero

Originally Posted by jakedaawg
put your tank and fuel line on your friends engine. If problem happens on his engine replace your tank and fuel line.
That's a good idea.

That's a good idea.

I'm guessing it's a bad primer bulb and/or bad tank vent.

Problem is that from OP's description in the thread, he has his tank hard-piped now....he has removed the quick connects from fuel line and tank.
No way to really pinpoint the original cause....might just have been an o-ring in quick connect fitting.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Yes if i keep pumping the bulb it will keep running and running, but i only have to pump the bulb about every 50-70 yards.This is always at WOT.

1985 9.9 Evinrude/Johnson

This indicates that the fuel pump could be faulty, BUT you have replaced the fuel pump so that's pretty well eliminated. I assume it was a NEW fuel pump or one you know to be perfect?

I assume that the thick sealing gasket between the fuel pump and the crankcase is securely in place?

If the pump is good, then that leaves what operates the fuel pump diaphragm which is:

1 - One piston running up/down a cylinder, the underside of which creates pressure/vacuum to fluctuate the pump diaphragm. Check the compression to make sure the operating piston does not have a severe blow by problem.

2 - Crankcase pressure/vacuum... If a leaf valve, related to the fuel pump action, on the intake manifold is broken or simply not seated properly, the pressure/vacuum required by the fuel pump diaphragm is non existent... check it! If crankcase leakage existed in any other area, I assume you would have discovered that.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

1985 9.9 Evinrude/Johnson

This indicates that the fuel pump could be faulty, BUT you have replaced the fuel pump so that's pretty well eliminated. I assume it was a NEW fuel pump or one you know to be perfect?

I assume that the thick sealing gasket between the fuel pump and the crankcase is securely in place?

If the pump is good, then that leaves what operates the fuel pump diaphragm which is:

1 - One piston running up/down a cylinder, the underside of which creates pressure/vacuum to fluctuate the pump diaphragm. Check the compression to make sure the operating piston does not have a severe blow by problem.

2 - Crankcase pressure/vacuum... If a leaf valve, related to the fuel pump action, on the intake manifold is broken or simply not seated properly, the pressure/vacuum required by the fuel pump diaphragm is non existent... check it! If crankcase leakage existed in any other area, I assume you would have discovered that.

Joe, They put TWO fuel pumps on, and OP has done a pressure test of FP output and is getting 2.5-3.0 PSI.
 

tjhamms

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

I would revisit that carburetor. Look for and verify that the vent is not partially clogged. In post # 39 you state " if i keep pumping the bulb it will keep running and running, but i only have to pump the bulb about every 50-70 yards.This is always at WOT." Does this mean you can run at lower throttle with out pumbing the bulb?
 

jbeener1

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

What about at the prime bulb, is it clamped or one piece with the fuel line, could you be getting air there?

I have tried three diff bulbs,some clamp on some made into the line
 

jbeener1

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

I would revisit that carburetor. Look for and verify that the vent is not partially clogged. In post # 39 you state " if i keep pumping the bulb it will keep running and running, but i only have to pump the bulb about every 50-70 yards.This is always at WOT." Does this mean you can run at lower throttle with out pumbing the bulb?
Yes i can run at low to mid range speed and it fine.
 

Rick.

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Have you attempted to re adjust the carb. float at all? Rick.
 

theblob

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

It may not be the hoses at all.why not when it was running good and right didnt you leave it alone?Every time your takeing lines on off is putting dirt in there,and theres a chance the dirt could get to the carb.maybe its a mind trick and messing up on certain times.Maybe when at wot everything isnt adjusted to go wot.Dont you have to have everything adjusted electrical stuff.maybe pushing on bulb is just helping solve another problem that needs to be adjusted.If your carb is wide open doesnt it need to be wide open everywhere else?
 

seahorse5

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Do one thing before you go off in all different directions and swapping stuff.

Temporarily add a piece of clear fuel line to the INPUT side of the pump and run the motor while looking for bubbles. If you see them, then it is a fuel delivery problem that you have.

The fuel pressure output should be near the 6 psi range if I remember correctly and if the fuel has air in it, then the readings would be lower.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Do one thing before you go off in all different directions and swapping stuff.

Temporarily add a piece of clear fuel line to the INPUT side of the pump and run the motor while looking for bubbles. If you see them, then it is a fuel delivery problem that you have.

The fuel pressure output should be near the 6 psi range if I remember correctly and if the fuel has air in it, then the readings would be lower.

From Standard non oiling fuel pump for outboards

Standard outboard fuel pump troubleshooting (All brands/models)

There isn't really too much involving fuel pump troubleshooting, and I'm rather amazed at how many fuel pump kits we sell in a years time, as standard outboard fuel pumps don't really act up that much in my experience of 20-some years of wrenching. If you feel though the fuel pump is your problem, read on.

A standard outboard fuel pump is a simple device that operates off the pulse of an engines cylinder. A basic rubber fuel line connects the fuel pump to a pulse valve (some models of fuel pump attach directly to the block with a gasket, sealing pulse passage to cylinder), which is normally threaded into the block with provisions of a clear passage to a specified cylinder. The up and down stroke of the piston in the specific cylinder is what causes the fuel pump diaphragm to flutter, resulting in pumping fuel from tank to carbs.

So how do I know the fuel pump is doing what it is suppose to?
As described above, the fuel pump requires an adequate pulse from the cylinder that it is attached to, so first thing is to make sure compression on that cylinder is up to snuff or the fuel pump can't do it's job. If compression checks out, then next thing is to check fuel pump pressure. All non fuel injected outboard motors operate with a fuel pump pressure of about 5 to 7 psi. If consideribly less than 5 to 7 psi exists between fuel pump and carb/s, the motor is likely to be starving for fuel causing idle and/or upper rpm operation to suffer, not to mention a dangerously lean condition.

So what if everything to do with pulse supply to the pump is good, but I still suspect the pump has a problem?
Although I mentioned not experiencing many fuel pumps actually being bad, it is indeed possible for either the diaphragm, check valves, or other problem to develop in a fuel pump. If it's plainly worn out, then so be it, install a kit or replace pump entirely, but I would suggest checking all other things in this troubleshooter page before just taking it for granted your time and money spent on a fuel pump kit or replacement pump will solve your motor's woes.

Could anything else cause the fuel pump to not provide adequate fuel supply to the motor?
The answer is yes. There could be a restriction or loose connection from tank to fuel pump, amongst other things. Assuming you have no leaks (including pinholes in hoses) anywhere in-between, the following would be things to check for:

Fuel tank internal pickup tube clogged, broken off, or otherwise defective.
Anti syphon valve located on tank (is so equipped) could be defective (check ball/spring).
Any kinked hoses between tank and pump.
Defective in-line squeeze bulb (usually the internal check valve).
Defective or incorrectly attached fuel line connectors.
Clogged fuel filter.
Inadequate fuel tank vent or kinked vent hose.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

I have not re-checked the float but I will

I was just pointing out that you'd done it twice....doubt you need to do it again.
A float setting issue is not something that is likely to "just happen"....IMO.
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

I have Evinrude 6HP 1975 and 8 HP 1990.
The OEM manual specs the output at 2,5 PSI at WOT for both.

You should verify what value you should be getting with your motor, but I suspect it will be the same.
Based on your test, I don't think your fuel pump is the problem.
 

jbeener1

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

It may not be the hoses at all.why not when it was running good and right didnt you leave it alone?Every time your takeing lines on off is putting dirt in there,and theres a chance the dirt could get to the carb.maybe its a mind trick and messing up on certain times.Maybe when at wot everything isnt adjusted to go wot.Dont you have to have everything adjusted electrical stuff.maybe pushing on bulb is just helping solve another problem that needs to be adjusted.If your carb is wide open doesnt it need to be wide open everywhere else?

The only time it ran right was when i had my friends hose hooked to it,i couldnt keep his hose.
 

theblob

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Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Ok have you ever though about the hose on inside of tank
 
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