Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

[Something2do]

Hello Everyone,

I have the eventual goal of restoring an older model Bass Boat: Skeeter Starfire, Basscat Panterra, etc sometime soon. While I was looking for the perfect candidate boat, I came across a smaller 14ft mostly fiberglass boat that I thought would make a great practice boat for my glassing, sanding skills and also test my resolve for a larger project.

I hope you feel that this small project is worthy of iboats. I am a huge iboats fan mostly because everyone shares their valuable knowledge and experience so generously with others.

Here is the boat: The style was some kind of combination rowboat, sailing dingy. (Do you like my workshop?)

The boat is mostly made of fiberglass and it seems structurally sound for the most part. There are some glassed in foam supports running horizontally across the interior (what is the right term for these?) that are cracked and had to be removed.

I removed these and the foam with my grinder:

You can see in teh above picture that there is a big hole in the bottom of the boat. This was for a dagger board that was used in the orginal sailing configuration. I cut the dagger board extension off and grinded that flat with the foam supports.

There was a glassed in area in the rear of the boat that held some flotation foam. I was going to leave it alone, but when i cut the cap off the transom, it was all rot. To get the transom out, I had to cut out the rear area and remove all the foam. I did all of this work with the grinder as well.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Sorry about the double post picture above, here is the other photos of the foam coming out and the rotten transom:

I have watched countless iboaters tear transoms out of their boats. I now have a completely new feeling after doing this small one. I guess the wood is impregnated into the fiberglass as one. I had to scrape, chisel, grind, and sand for about 45 minutes to get all the wood off the transom. I can not imagine doing a full size transom! I will need some physical conditioning prior to trying anything larger.

 

[matt167]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Looks like a cool project. Lot of boats made like that thru the years. If I'm not mistaken it might a Chrysler, but there were several companies making simmilar boats.

I'm building a Glen L/ Hankinson 8' drift pram. Started building it as practice to build a Glen L Cabin Skiff, but after adding up costs on the big boat and just wanting to get on the water, I decided to restore a boat.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

So I guess this is a good time to talk about my plans for the boat. I would really like to have this boat for an all purpose, camping fishing boat to run around on small lakes and ponds. I have two small outboards,2.5hp and 5hp Johnson's that I would like to fit to the boat for larger private lakes. Since I have no idea what the original design of the boat was rated for, I am not sure if the boat can support the weight of these smaller outboards. If not, I will just put a electric trolling motor and some oars on it.

My plan is to replace the transom, repair all the damaged glass, and re-gel the entire boat. I am thinking i will do a full layup of glass in the interior to stiffen and strengthen the entire boat.

I did most of the previous work in one afternoon, then began sanding the next day. The hull of the boat is covered in scrapes, scuffs, and stress cracks. I have read several posts here on iboats that talk about taking stress cracks down to the glass. I began working on the sanding and learned that cheap sandpaper is cheap for a reason. I was only getting about 2 minutes worth on each piece of 80 grit paper using an electric variable speed DA sander/polisher i picked up from harbor freight. You can really see the difference in the picture below. The left side is sanded.

Stress cracks that need work:

So here come the questions for the pros:

1. I have been using 80 grit cheapo sand paper, but it is not removing material to my liking. Does someone have experience with some better paper, lower grit, etc to use to get those stress cracks down to the glass?

2. When I sand the inside of the boat, I noticed that the layer of fiberglass (looks like woven roving with a big weave) is right on the surface, so I don't know if that is gel coat or some kind of marine paint. I am planning on doing a full layup of glass on the inside of the boat. Do I need to get the inside of the hull perfectly smooth to do a good layup, or just rough it up with the 80 grit? The big weave of the old glass leaves some deep depressions to sand down flat.

3. I guessed that I am working with poly resin on the old glass, but the truth is that I really have no idea if it is poly or epoxy? How can I tell? and if it is Epoxy, can I used Poly resin now for repair and new glass?

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Looks like a cool project. Lot of boats made like that thru the years. If I'm not mistaken it might a Chrysler, but there were several companies making simmilar boats.

I'm building a Glen L/ Hankinson 8' drift pram. Started building it as practice to build a Glen L Cabin Skiff, but after adding up costs on the big boat and just wanting to get on the water, I decided to restore a boat.

Thanks Matt,

I wish I could nail down the boats origin so I could feel better about the mods I making. I am planning on putting a 3/4 pressure treated transom in with a steel plate on the rear to protect the transom. The fiberglass on the boat is very thin, maybe 1/4 or less and the boat is very lightweight for its size. (which also makes me concerned for its strength)

I can tell how this hobby gets so addicting. My issue with starting a larger project is having the right space. No way I could destroy my garage (and stay married!) with a big project. I will have to rent a small industrial space near my home so I will need to have my materials and skills ready to go when I pull the trigger, or the monthly rent will eat my budget away too fast.

 

[matt167]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

It's not a planing hull, so it won't take much power to run it. 2.5hp or less is all you need with a light load, but 5hp would work with your transom plan. Small displacement hull boats aren't really rated for the amount of power they can handle. Instead it's more about the weight of the motor. Not going to take much to get that to max displacement speed. Should be around 5 knots. More power than you need will just put it bow high

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Welcome to iBoats!

Never seen a boat like this, but I like it. I'd recommend using a 4 1/2" Grinder from Harbor Freight with a backup pad and use the 36 grit resin coat sanding discs...

Use a light touch cuz it IS aggressive and will make short work on those spider cracks. I'd Grind the inside first and repair all the holes and issues from the inside first. Then apply your full layer of 1708. After that flip it and do the outside grinding and repairs. Make SURE and use the proper PPE. Fiberglass dust is nothing to fool with. Poly resin does not like to stick to epoxy very well. Epoxy will stick to just about anything except some plastics. There is no easy way to determine if the boat is made from poly or epoxy that I know of. I'd suspect it's made from poly. Before you can apply the new layer of 1708 to the inside of the hull you must grind it all down to fresh glass in order for the new glass to adhere properly. Lay a cloth soaked in Acetone on the inside of the hull and let it set for 20 minutes. if the interior is coated with gelcoat nothing will happen, If its paint it will peel and lift. If it's paint you must remove all of it to get the new glass to adhere. If it's gelcoat then grind down to smooth and shape (new glass will adhere to gelcoat IF its clean) then wash/scrub it down with TriSodiumPhosphate (get it @ Lowe's) then follow up with Acetone. the first link in my signature line has drawings and details on how to build and glass your transom. You can make some great filler and fairing material from your resin. I'd recommend you get about 6 yards of 1.5 CSM, 6 yards of 1708 5 gallons of resin, 5qts of cabosil, 5 qts of Glass bubbles and 1 lb of 1/4" chopped strand and a fiberglass roller to roll out the air pockets.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Thanks Matt for the confidence in possibly adding an outboard to the boat. I will start with the lower power outboard and then work up to the larger one if needed.

Thank you to Woodonglass for your suggestions. I will pick up some 36 grit for the grinder today and see if that will get things done more quickly. I will also try your Acetone trick on the inside to see if I am dealing with Paint or Gel. I read your transom post which was very helpful. (love the homemade clamps idea)

One last question, the inner side of the skin from the transom cleaning is not flat and smooth due to all the material being removed. It looked like from your post that you are attaching the transom to the skin using PB mix and clamps. I am guessing that takes care of the voids by filling them with all the material and squeezing it out with the clamps and pre-drilled holes in the transom. Also, for a boat this small, will one sheet of 3/4" treated be sufficiently strong or should i try to get a full 1"? What was there previously was probably 1/2".

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Just placed my first order with USComposites. (Thank you Woodonglass for your quantity suggestions) While I am waiting on my supplies to arrive, I have a lot of sanding to do. Seems like sanding is a skill I better get used to doing if this is a hobby I will be doing much of in the future!

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. More pics coming later...

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

i'd avoid using PT Ply for the transom....use regular exterior grade

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

R U Wearing the PPE?? Your original pics show a curved transom. You should emulate that when you put in the new one. I'd use 4 layers of 1/4". It will flex and mold itself to the curve. PB in one layer, clamp it, then come back and do the next layer in a couple of hours.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

R U Wearing the PPE?? Your original pics show a curved transom. You should emulate that when you put in the new one. I'd use 4 layers of 1/4". It will flex and mold itself to the curve. PB in one layer, clamp it, then come back and do the next layer in a couple of hours.

Yes, one of the first things I did was get the PPE - you guys did a great job driving that point home in the forums.

For the transom - actually, it was flatter before. When I took the transom out, it lost the support and now it looks more curved for sure. I will take a closer look at the curve today and see. If it is curved, I would want to keep the curve as you said and your idea of doing layer by layer of 1/4" is great.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

I'm pretty sure this pic is with the transom and rear floatation box still in tact. It clearly shows a curved transom unless that's just a curve upper lip and the transom below is flat. Hard to tell from this pic.

This one also seems to show a curvature to the transom skin...

A good side shot would tell the tale.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Picked up some better sandpaper today, will give it a go this afternoon.

Here are the side shots of the transom. I actually went by my home and looked at the transom again and I swear it is flat, but all the other curves make it look very deceiving. It seems like the lower part was flat and they engineered something to make the upper lip curved. I don't know how I would replicate that.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Are these individual strips of wood or was the transom plywood? It looks kinda like strips glued in vertically and if thats the case then that's one way of doing a curve transom. Hmmm... I'm confused again. Can you post a pic Looking straight down on the top edge of the transom so we can see what it looks like from that angle. The rounded "Gunwale" sure makes it look curved and with the wood coming all the way to the top of the hull, It almost has to be a curved transom

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Do you know the MFG of the boat? If so we might be able to Google it and find some pics of an original.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

I spent days trying to find the maker of the boat to no avail. Someone salvaged it on a huge lake flood we had here years ago and never did anything with the boat. I think I can explain the strips...When I was pulling the wood out, it looked like someone had dado'ed (sp) or cut channels into the original transom. There were strips of resin running vertically down the transom wood just as you can see in the image above. It was hard to tell if they were cut into a single sheet of wood, or if the first sheet was laid that way and an additional sheet was laminated on.

It did not appear as if they were individual strips when I did the deconstruction. I think I am going to go with the idea that there was some curve in the original transom. What would be the best method of rebuilding the transom and keeping the natural curve?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Ok, that confirms it, they put those Dado's/Kerfs in the wood which allows it to be bent to shape. You could do the same but using multiple lams of 1/4" will do the same and, IMHO, yield a stronger transom in the end. It will take a bit longer to do it but should be worth it. Here's how to create a perfect transom template. Cut some heavy paper to the approximate shape of the sides and bottom. Tape it in place. Take a Pencil Compass and lay the point on the hull side and the pencil on the paper. Drag it from the top left down to the bottom, across the bottom and up the right side on the inside of the boat. this will scribe a line that represents the exact shape of the sides and bottom. Cut the paper on those lines and then tape em back in the boat. Now take more paper and fill in the middle and tape all of the pieces together. Voila' one perfect Transom template.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

Thank you for the template idea. Have you done this before? I think i will go with the 2-3 layers of 1/4" ply after all. I was thinking that the dado's were there to make a better connection to the glass, I didn't think about the kerfs helping with the curved shape.

What a difference some quality sandpaper makes! I picked up some 40 grit from Home Depot, and was irritated about the price. (about
$5.00 for 5 6" circles) After sanding for about 2 hours, I realized that the money was well spent. I was able to give the inside hull a good first sanding.

So now I have another question. The top layer of glass is heavy roven woving (I think). Here is a picture of the material you can see in the rear under the old foam where there was no gel coat.

This makes the interior hull very textured due to the high and lows produced in the material. If I really get after it with the sander, I can get these all flat and perfectly smooth, but I wondered if I should be doing this at all? Since it was so much additional work to get it this way, I just resorted to doing a good rough up on the rest of the boat figuring I could come back on a second pass if it needed to be perfectly smooth. Here is what my rough sanding produced, notice that the highs of the material are sanded flat, but some untouched areas remain in the low spots.

 

[Something2do]

Re: Practice Boat - New Transom, Gel Coat, Seats

This again is my practice boat, but I still want to make it look right. My intention is to do a full layup of glass in the interior to stiffen and strengthen the boat. (It is rather flimsy and thin now) I am not concerned with the interior being perfectly smooth as that would make it slippery anyway. I plan on Gel Coating the interior after the glass layup.

My question is, do I need to get the previous material perfectly smooth or can I leave the material as it is, do a good chemical prep job and get a good bond with the glass? My plan (thank you Woodonglass) is to lay a layer of CSM and then a layer of 1708 in one shot after doing the support, transom, and any other repair glass work.

Would it be better on the boat to use a filler (Bondo-glass, PB, Etc) for the voids vs. sanding the material down?

On another note, here is another shot of the transom looking straight down. Look how thin that skin is.

I will get the materials for the transom and hope to get it cut and fitted before the weekend. Assuming that I receive my materials from USComposites by the weekend, I hope to be putting in a transom then. I still have to build my WOG Brand (insert copyright here) Transom Clamps for the job as well.