Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

tony_cliffy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Mar 19, 2003
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I have an aluminum utility boat that gets lots and lots of condensation under all the decks. It has a 21 gallon gas tank mounted up under a deck. I know it is sealed but just worry condensation might be an issue for me and I have no gas/water filter installed. The engine is a new 2004 Johnson 4-stroke and I don't want it ruined. Any advice on specific filters or technology I should look at? I like the idea of the clear ones so I can see in them.
 

quantumleap

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Feb 16, 2004
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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

I believe every outboard owner should use a water separating filter. I would get a unit that takes a regular style filter such as a universal merc unit and then get the Racor filter with the see-thru bottom. If you buy the Racor base, then that is the only brand of filter you can use. With a universal base, you could go to the cheaper style of filter if you wanted to. This is the unit I have and it works great and comes with every thing you need to install. http://www.iboats.com/products/16/40317_tempo_maxflo_water_separating_fuel_filter.html You would then need to order a see thru bowl type filter. I don't personally use one as I plan to change it at least once a year.
 

tony_cliffy

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

After looking at them online I guess it is no different conceptually than having an oil filter - some may prefer one brand over another - but basically I should just get a basic one and change it every year. I like your idea about getting a universal base though.<br /><br />Any advice regarding whether I should mount this below deck near my tank (and out of the way) or do I need to mount it right under my powerhead on the upper part of the transom? I'd rather get it out of the way.<br /><br />Ooh - what about 3/8 vs. 1/4? I don't know what I should get for my 115HP 4-stroke (Johnson)?
 

Spinner1

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Jun 19, 2004
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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Glad you started this thread. The Yamaha dealer told me horror stories this weekend about some ruined vacations due to four carbs full of wet marina gas. I am definitely adding one of these.<br /><br />At the risk of sounding cheap, could you remove the filter a couple times per season and let it drain a few days? Then change it once a season? Or do I misunderstand the way the filter element is designed? Looks like an oil filter cartridge to me.
 

rickdb1boat

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Jan 23, 2002
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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Ditto, Quantumleap. That the type I use and I just change the filter every year. Works fine..
 

rickdb1boat

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

tonycliffy <br /><br />By the tank is fine or anywhere that is easy to service it. 3/8 line is what I would suggest...
 

rickdb1boat

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Spinner1<br /><br />For the cost of the cartridge replacements, I would not chance trying to drain it. You will not need to do it more than twice a year... $10.00<br /><br /> Canister
 

Spinner1

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Rick<br /><br />You sound like a guy that didn't pay for a brand new outboard today. I'm still shell shocked. Maybe I can find some beer cans in the ditch tomorrow and buy a filter. :)
 

vinney

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Oct 29, 2002
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437
Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

four strokes rig with 5/16 fuel line from the water fuel separator to the engine. Some of the engine fuel pumps have a problem pulling fuel thru the 3/8 lines. Some engines where running out of fuel. The fuel was being cavitated. All Yamaha outboard four strokes are rigged with 5/16 fuel line from the factory. 3/8 to the separator and 5/16 to the engine.
 

rickdb1boat

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

You're right Spinner. I didn't buy a new motor today, but if I did, I would not be reusing old filters on it. I'd be collecting all kinds of cans for a new cartridge.. :D Wait a minute, we are talking about 2 different motors. 3/8 on the Johnson 115...5/16 is true for Yammies...
 

dajohnson53

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Originally posted by tonycliffy:<br /> snip...<br /><br />Any advice regarding whether I should mount this below deck near my tank (and out of the way) or do I need to mount it right under my powerhead on the upper part of the transom? I'd rather get it out of the way.<br />
You will indeed get condensation with built in tanks. Like someone else said, I can't imagine why any outboard - or I/O owner - would go without a water separating filter. <br /><br />If you go with the clear bowl type, I do believe you'll have to mount it out in the open for safety purposes. <br /><br />If you want to mount it out of the way, you probably have to go with a non-bowl type filter or one with a metal (not clear plastic). <br /><br />Frankly, I never use the "clear" aspect of my plastic bowl to examine what's in it. I just drain it and look at what's in the jar. A metal bowl would serve me just as well. <br /><br />A bowl type of filter is nice because as long as you drain the bowl regularly - which is a simple and great routine to get into - the filter itself doesn't really have to be changed often. I change mine every spring, but am not convinced it has to be changed. I've been told that the filter itself doesn't actually get clogged or go bad as long as you keep the bowl drained of water so it doesn't back up into the filter. I'm thinking it also filters particulates as well as separating the water, thus my routine of changing it at least once a year.<br /><br />The money spent on filters is well worth the peace of mind, let alone the hassel of water in the fuel!<br /><br />The only time I had a problem was when I didn't realize I should be draining the bowl, didn't do it all season, and the filter itself literally filled with water and the motor died. After I drained it out it worked fine.<br /><br />My old I/O had a non-bowl type filter cannister which I just changed regularly.<br /><br />When you mount it, think clearance for draining and make it as easy as you can. I keep a small jar (6 oz?) with a tight fitting lid on hand close to the filter so that it's easy to drain the bowl whenever I think about it. Typically, I drain 3 or 4 oz into the jar. Water comes out first and as soon as I see it becoming nice clean fuel, that's all I need to drain. I usually get just a an ounce or two of water followed by an ounce or so of fuel before I close the drain - this, every 50 gallons or so - not nearly enough to cause problems as described above. I just keep the drainage in the jar until I can dispose of it.
 

vinney

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

All four strokes are rigged with 5/16 fuel line. Has nothing to do with brand. Only old v-6 and v-8 carb. outboards do you rig with 3/8 fuel line. All DFI,EFI and four strokes should have 5/16 fuel line fuel from the water sep.
 

rickdb1boat

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Jan 23, 2002
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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Good info Vinney. Will keep that in mind.. I assume these are the only motors you are referring to? I know my 91' 70 HP Rude takes a 3/8 line, as well as many other 2-strokes. I guess these 4-strokes do not pull fuel like the less efficient 2 strokes, that really suck it down... Learn something new everyday...
 

tony_cliffy

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Vinney,<br /><br />I just called Johnson tech line. He said use 3/8. 5/16 would probably work but he said you can't have it too big.<br /><br />Could you please elaborate on how using 3/8 to feed the filter but 5/16 to feed the engine still doesn't equate to an overall 5/16 flow?<br /><br />Thanks!
 

vinney

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Johnson is BMC now. ALL four-strokes are made in Japan (All). The only one made here is the new Mercury. The OMC/BMC four stroke is suzuki. The fuel pumps is made in Japan and are made by the same company. All four strokes are rigged with 5/16(everything matters). They use a small fuel pump and if you plumb it too big the engine can run out of fuel because the fuel pump can't over come the extra vacuum need to pull the extra fuel.(why do YOU think when you properly rig an engine you are so-post to check your vacuum pull on the inlet side of the fuel.) If you read the rigging guide and service manuals its in there. If some said it doesn't matter they haven't read the books or had to solve a drivability problem. Read the books The question was about a four-stroke no an old 70 hp. We find alot of problems because of improper rigging thats why it matters.
 

rickdb1boat

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Excuse me Vinney for mentioning what my motor used for fuel line! Glad I have an OLD motor, so I know what fuel line to use. I think we should all stay away from those 4 strokes that Bomb does not know anything about....
 

vinney

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

You recommened to use 3/8 fuel line that too big for the lift pump in that engine. The problem is the new engines have 3 to 5 year warrantys. Here is the the problem. Say you buy a new four- stroke and it has five years of warranty. You have a drivabilty problem you take it to the dealer where you boat not who sold it to You. Its a rigging problem You don't want to pay YOU have a warranty and the engine manufacture won't pay either because they have guide lines for rigging there products. Who pays You do. Then your mad. If the boat was rigged properly the problem wouldn't have occured. It matters. We see this situation once aweek. Someone who rigged the boat had no clue. All four-strokes are rigged with 5/16 fuel line We have found problems with the fuel being cavitated. All four-strokes come with 5/16 fuel line from the factory.
 

rickdb1boat

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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Didn't doubt your word and even thanked you for the info..... How can the fuel cavitate if the fuel line is full of fuel, no matter the line size? No argument intended...
 

tony_cliffy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Mar 19, 2003
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Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Vinney,<br /><br />What are the noticable effects when the fuel cavitation is happening? I went ahead and ordered a Sierra water separator kit from NAPA but forgot to check my fuel line on the boat. It will be interesting to see what my dealer installed. I will likely switch the final leg of the line to 5/16 like you suggest.
 

BillP

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Aug 10, 2002
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3,290
Re: Recommendations for value priced water seperator?

Originally posted by rickdb1boat:<br /> Didn't doubt your word and even thanked you for the info..... How can the fuel cavitate if the fuel line is full of fuel, no matter the line size? No argument intended...
rickdb1boat...in fluid dynamics it's called head pressure. It takes more effort to pull liquid as the diameter of the hose gets bigger, higher or longer. Like already posted, the pump cannot pull the weight of the fuel in bigger lines and air is induced by the fp diaphragm.
 
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