Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Well said Chuck. Sums it right up.:)
Only one thing to add.
Don't let a water purification system salesman in the house !!!:eek:
 

4JawChuck

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
504
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Well said Chuck. Sums it right up.:)
Only one thing to add.
Don't let a water purification system salesman in the house !!!:eek:


Ain't that the truth!

A few years ago a buddy of mine purchased an RO system for his lab primarily to have clean water for his salt water aquarium, he brought me in and showed me this $1000 table top unit while I just shook my head in disbelief.

Of course he read "on the internet" how its the cleanest water blah blah blah and how it was the best way to get the water he needed to maintain his fish tank...where his fish poop and pee all day long into it.

I didn't have the heart to tell him it was way overkill and totally unnecessary then I asked him how long it took to refill his huge tank and he said "overnight". He changes the filters once every three months and sucks up the costs for filters four times a year. Totally wrong system for the job and not necessary but he loves it.

He had to come up with a secondary tank for the fish to live in while he cleans the tank and refills and the lack of minerals in the water from RO treatment he compensates by adding powders to the water which he then has to circulate and adjust before he re-introduces the fish. I didn't have the heart to ask how much the chemicals cost since he was so proud that he found a bulk supplier for them and buys it by the pound!

What could have been a three hour procedure turned into a two day affair...just to have fish poop in. He wonders why the fish get sick more often and seem so shocked after putting them back into the tank, his coral and plants don't do so well either and need constant replacement because they die. He seems confused because his test equipment says the water is perfect chemically...Ok!

He is a very smart guy who usually knows what he's doing but not in this case, I just smile and nod to avoid a confrontation especially since he went out of his way to not ask my advice...after all its only part of what I do for a living.:rolleyes:

At any rate I caution anyone looking for clean drinking water to take a hard look at RO before committing to it, it strips many of those "things" out of the water that make it an essential source for basic elements that your body needs to sustain life. As an example if you were to drink large amounts WFI water (water for injection) which is as clean as you can get, it would make you sick because it lack the metals and elements your body requires to sustain life...it will literally strip your body of minerals and kill you.

We use RO/DI water for removing minerals stains and deposits from pharmaceutical grade glassware after cleaning as a final rinse since it is electrically charged and will strip minerals off a surface very effectively...not something you want to happen in your body is it. Depending on the efficiency of the RO unit and the condition of the filters the water that is output can approach DI water in quality.

Like washing your hands to prevent infection there is a point where more is not better.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

....We use the special salt that is supposed to take out iron in the water.......

No such thing, mciaio. Any additives in the salt only help keep the resin free of iron oxide build up but they do nothing in the active treatment of the water passing thru the resin bed.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

.....When changing filters, I also sanitize the system with a little bleach and water run through without the filters in. .....

If you are running the bleach thru your RO membrane, you will kill it for sure. Most units today use Thin Film Composite Membranes. They are chlorine intolerant. That is why they come with carbon prefilters to remove any chlorine before it hit's the membrane.

Iron, in any form, will foul an RO membrane. Iron oxide (rust) will foul the membrane very quickly. Dissolved iron will precipitate out on the membrane and foul it just as quickly. Membranes will not remove any gases from the water, they only deal with dissolved solids. Hydrogen sulphide, for one, will soon foul an RO membrane. This gas can be precipitated and it does so in the pores of the membrane, soon rendering it useless.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

....and I will add this to counter much of what has been said. It is a myth that pure water, whether from an RO or from Distillation strips essential minerals out of the body. The body, plain and simple, needs H2O to perform many of it's functions. Most all of what is in natural water is not readily usable by the body so in essence, the body has to distill it's own water.

For instance, calcium found in limestone (hardness) is not the kind of calcium the body can use. An RO or a softener removes it. Sodium, imparted to your water by the ion exchange water softening process is one of the most easily removed dissolved substance by an RO membrane and puts very little load on it.

Point being, there are a lot of myths being stated here. Old wives tales, if you will.
 

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Ain't that the truth!

A few years ago a buddy of mine purchased an RO system for his lab primarily to have clean water for his salt water aquarium, he brought me in and showed me this $1000 table top unit while I just shook my head in disbelief.

Of course he read "on the internet" how its the cleanest water blah blah blah and how it was the best way to get the water he needed to maintain his fish tank...where his fish poop and pee all day long into it.

I didn't have the heart to tell him it was way overkill and totally unnecessary then I asked him how long it took to refill his huge tank and he said "overnight". He changes the filters once every three months and sucks up the costs for filters four times a year. Totally wrong system for the job and not necessary but he loves it.

He had to come up with a secondary tank for the fish to live in while he cleans the tank and refills and the lack of minerals in the water from RO treatment he compensates by adding powders to the water which he then has to circulate and adjust before he re-introduces the fish. I didn't have the heart to ask how much the chemicals cost since he was so proud that he found a bulk supplier for them and buys it by the pound!

What could have been a three hour procedure turned into a two day affair...just to have fish poop in. He wonders why the fish get sick more often and seem so shocked after putting them back into the tank, his coral and plants don't do so well either and need constant replacement because they die. He seems confused because his test equipment says the water is perfect chemically...Ok!

He is a very smart guy who usually knows what he's doing but not in this case, I just smile and nod to avoid a confrontation especially since he went out of his way to not ask my advice...after all its only part of what I do for a living.:rolleyes:

At any rate I caution anyone looking for clean drinking water to take a hard look at RO before committing to it, it strips many of those "things" out of the water that make it an essential source for basic elements that your body needs to sustain life. As an example if you were to drink large amounts WFI water (water for injection) which is as clean as you can get, it would make you sick because it lack the metals and elements your body requires to sustain life...it will literally strip your body of minerals and kill you.

We use RO/DI water for removing minerals stains and deposits from pharmaceutical grade glassware after cleaning as a final rinse since it is electrically charged and will strip minerals off a surface very effectively...not something you want to happen in your body is it. Depending on the efficiency of the RO unit and the condition of the filters the water that is output can approach DI water in quality.

Like washing your hands to prevent infection there is a point where more is not better.

Hilarious.:D
My (possible) future son in law (to our eldest daughter) recently was looking for work and hooked up with one of those "super water" companies. He had to do some demonstrations to family and friends to "get the feel" of how to sell the garbage. His biggest mistake was that he came to us to try it out when I was home. He found out just what an A*****E I can be when someone is trying to rip off my family. Consequently he sought employment elsewhere !!!:D:D
 

4JawChuck

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
504
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Although there are other less serious side effects of ingesting large amounts of WFI water, hypokalemia is one of the more serious medical conditions that can be induced.

Its not a wives tale, here is a description of the condition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypokalemia

It was specifically mentioned during my training since it is technicians who have unlimited access to WFI water typically in locations where it may be tempting to utilize it as a substitute for potable water. Its not common but not easy to diagnose either.
 

Cofe

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,883
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Lots of good info!
I am going to visit my local water treatment facility, and get a water test report. My decision will be made by what is needed to get my tap water in good condition. A whole house filter system may be all I need to fix my water quality,
I will just have to see.

From my understanding, a RO system removes fluoride too. Should this be a concerning factor?
 

mike64

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
1,042
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

If you are running the bleach thru your RO membrane, you will kill it for sure. Most units today use Thin Film Composite Membranes. They are chlorine intolerant. That is why they come with carbon prefilters to remove any chlorine before it hit's the membrane.

Yes, as I said I run the chlorinated water through without the filters in. But it's a good idea to stress that it should be done only when the RO filter is out. I follow the sanitization procedure in the directions and make sure the chlorine is good and flushed out of the system before I put the filters in.
 

mike243

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
123
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Lots of good info!
I am going to visit my local water treatment facility, and get a water test report. My decision will be made by what is needed to get my tap water in good condition. A whole house filter system may be all I need to fix my water quality,
I will just have to see.

From my understanding, a RO system removes fluoride too. Should this be a concerning factor?

fluoride is put in the water to promote healthy teeth,have read several reports as to the effectivness of the practice,have also read a few reports against,i would vote to have it in the water for the youths,also look at your refridges water guide for psi & volume,you will find 30lbs is needed for a normal cycle,a RO system makes 20lbs,you can buy a small electric pump that will bring the psi up ,i know a bottled water company taht uses them so folks can use bottled water.good idea for a lab report on the water but take a sample & send it somewhere besides your local water company,in the past clean water was drawn fron very good wells but the amount needed now makes that impossible,river & lake water is now the standard for most public systems.a water softner system is not a partical filter,it is a desolved mineral removal tool.most of the units state to not use iron removing bellets all the time,before any purchase find out how any system works to make sure you are spending wisely the first time.water softners work well on clear water iron below a certain level but foul up quickley with it if its visable to the eye from untreated water.
 

Cofe

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,883
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Stopped by the local city water treatment facility, for a long talk and tour. Found out that the city has several water wells, and the quality varies from well to well. Some wells were ok, and others had high silica, iron, or nitrates. The water treatment supervisor said that they blend the waters together to get a better quality result. He also said depending on what water wells fill the water tower, the water quality can good, or half way good. :confused:

From what I gathered I decided to get a good brand RO unit from a local lumberyard.
That evening I studied how to install it, and started the install in the morning. By mid afternoon I was finished with the install and tested it. Everything worked ok.:)
I also installed a Tee in the RO line and connected the fridge icemaker. The icemaker is working ok and is on its 3rd batch of ice.

As mentioned in this thread, a RO unit must be clean. Any bacteria introduction can cause big problems. I followed all the directions, and plan to check the sediment filter in six months to see how it is doing. The directions said that you will be able to taste chlorine when the charcoal filter gets bad. But I plan to change both filters after 12 months of service.

Also spoke to a Dentist about RO systems removing fluoride. He suggested using fluoride toothpaste, and or fluoride added mouthwash.
Sounds like there are some good water pros here. Thanks for all the help!
I Boats is the best place for all water sports!:D
 

mciaio

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
141
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

Would scare me if my water company said "good or halfway good!" Like I said, we have high nitrates from all the feritlizer around here. Very bad for babies causes blue baby syndrome. Something about not letting the blood carry oxygen. That scared me enough to put mine in. I could care less about the flouride aspect and am really happy we are drinking 99.9% pure water.
 

mciaio

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
141
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

No such thing, mciaio. Any additives in the salt only help keep the resin free of iron oxide build up but they do nothing in the active treatment of the water passing thru the resin bed.
damn false advertising... Oh well, I guess the shower will remain red! LOL!
 

PiratePast40

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
1,734
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

The RO membrane won't handle high levels of iron for very long. Since nitrates seem to be a major concern, you might want to look into getting a nitrates test kit. You won't know if the RO is removing nitrates unless you test the discharge periodically.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water

damn false advertising... Oh well, I guess the shower will remain red! LOL!

If your water softener is working, mciaio, and you are still getting iron staining one of two things is happening.

a) your well is giving up iron oxide (a particle) which will not be removed by a water softener. You would need to determine if the iron oxide is of a size that can be physically filtered or whether it would need to be coagulated first. (colloidal iron oxide)

b) in some circumstances, in homes with iron plumbing, high levels of dissolved iron can actually be formed in the home plumbing. To determine this, test the water for iron immediately after the water softener. Dissolved iron, whether originating in the well or being formed off the home plumbing, will come out of the faucet perfectly clear but will turn to the staining oxide once coming in contact with the air.

Any dissolved iron coming from the well will be removed by a working water softener.
 
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