sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

[brokeboater]

i have a 99 200 Johnson i can not figure out a problem with. i have checked compression. 95+- on all cyl. checked fire on all wires with timing light while running on hose and all are firing. it seems to run pretty good in the yard on hose and will readily rev up. i can take down to the local ramp, back it in and start it up but when i give the gas it all but dies. carbs have been removed and cleaned, plugs replaced, anti siphon valve removed for test and fuel line replaced from separator to engine all to no avail. last time i was out it did this for first ten minutes or so. i figured i was going to have to put back on trailer but after babying a bit it went ahead and run good rest of day. now its back to same issue. it doesn't seem like fuel issue but i can't be sure. it prob should be noted this engine is used only every few months and what ever happened did so between trips. any ideas what to check next? Thanks in advance

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

On a flushette, the engine would rev up if runnning on only four cylinders (no back pressure).

Checking spark via a timing light proves nothing. THe spark must be checked using a spark tester whereas you can set a 7/16" gap. The spark must jump this gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! Does it?

Did you manually clean the high speed jets located in the bottom center portion of the float chambers? If not, do so with a piece of single strand steel wire as solvent alone just doesn't do the job properly.

Plugs should be Champion QL77JC4 plugs, gapped at .030 .

 

[brokeboater]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

thanks for the reply joe. i do not have an adjustable type spark checker but will see if i can get my hands on one.
i did not run anything thru the jets as the carbs appeared very clean upon removal. i sprayed carb cleaner thru every hole i could find and blew air thru afterwords. i will pull them again though and be sure since its not a bad job. i have not removed the throttle bodies for fear of screwing up the sync between them.
plugs were champion QL78YC per the johnson service manual. they were gapped to .30. would the ones you suggest provide a better result?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

The plugs recommended in the manual are the proper ones, sorry to say I got ahead of myself on that item. The ones I stated would work okay but yours are better suited.

No need to remove the throttle bodies but do pay particular attention to the seals between the carbs and those bodies... a break there would give you that same effect as a clogged high speed jet.

Any chance the primary coil wires might have been mislocated? Top = orange/blue, center = orange, bottom = orange/green.

 

[brokeboater]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

actually i saw that same plug you mentioned on the cdi website as being shown for my model in their trouble shooting page.

found an adjustable gap gauge at auto zone and will pick it up tomorrow. will a standard remote starter switch work to keep me from climbing in and out of the boat?

the little o-ring seals are a pain. i put a small dab of grease on them to hold in place but can not swear one didn't pop out. will verify when i remove carbs to check the jets.

coils/wires have not been touched. only thing done even close was the spark plug wires coming off to replace plugs.

thanks

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

And if you have some spare time.......

(Spark Tester - Home Made)
(J. Reeves)

A spark tester can be made with a piece of 1x4 or 1x6, drive a few finishing nails through it, then bend the pointed ends at a right angle. You can then adjust the gap by simply twisting the nail(s). Solder a spark plug wire to one which you can connect to the spark plug boots, and a ground wire of some kind to the other to connect to the powerhead somewhere. Use small alligator clips on the other end of the wires to connect to ground and to the spark plug connector that exists inside of the rubber plug boot.

Using the above, one could easily build a spark tester whereas they could connect 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinders all at one time. The ground nail being straight up, the others being bent, aimed at the ground nail. A typical 4 cylinder tester follows:


..........X1..........X2

.................X..(grd)

..........X3..........X4

 

[boobie]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Is the timer base sticking??

 

[brokeboater]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

boobie, that was my hope after initially searching this forum a few day ago. i checked that yesterday and it is moving with the linkage. thanks

 

[brokeboater]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

well i made some discoveries that may explain some things. i checked the fire with an adjustable gap tester and found one cylinder not strong enough to make the 7/16 gap. but after thinking about the timer base question i rechecked it today also. it is hanging while the engine is cold. that explains why it runs better after it got hot. there was a 20 degree temp drop here last night from 70 or so yesterday. it was not as sluggish yesterday as before. i guess the cold temp stiffens up the grease or what ever it rotates on and loosens up after it gets warm.

i didn't have time to move the coil to another position to see if that moved the fire problem, or at least thats what i think i need to do?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

No need to actually move the coil, simply switch the wire that leads from the powerpack to the coil to test the coil... obviously you can't run the engine with this test though, just a spark test to see if the coil is okay or not.

Timer base lubrication..... use a slight bit of anti corrosive grease on the brass bearing portion of the timer base and also on the related bearing portion of the top main bearing. BUT use only "OIL" on the nylon bearing retainer.

Exposed grease on that nylon retainer collects dirt etc and results in binding.

 

[boobie]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Let us know how it runs after after cleaning and lubing the timer base.

 

[brokeboater]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Let us know how it runs after after cleaning and lubing the timer base.

thanks folks...will reply back. prob will be a few days though. that nasty four letter word is back for a few days this week......work.

at least i have some direction to look in. any particulars in dealing with the flywheel? i have a impact wrench to remove but holding to re-torque may be an issue.

 

[boobie]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

To hold the flywheel for retorqueing, go to a parts house and ask for an automotive flywheel turner or maybe Harbor Freight. If Joe Reeves chimes in here he has a good pic of one.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Yup, and here it is.

 

[boobie]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Thank You Joe. I can't post pics yet.

 

[jere1972]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Just A thought, could it be possible to have a stuck shift kill switch, that would kill the right bank but still rev on a trailer, also maybe a faulty stator, seems the 35amp stators melt down due to heat, my 99 225 has a problem after sitting for 3-4 weeks with the shift kill switch! also my engine before a loose flywheel magnet made my wallet much lighter, I was having issues with my melting stator, it was firing the left bank spuratically while underway trying to plane out, had lack of top end performance sluggish hole shot, one day she would hit 6k and 56mph next week it was 40-42mph @5200 tops, replaced faulty stator, flywheel magnets, and busted timer base , cleaned off all the melting goo, new shift kill switch just because!, problems wents away!

 

[brokeboater]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

ok here is my last result on the weak/no fire. i moved the coil wire as suggested and the problem moved to that coil. it will fire if i close the gap a good bit (3/8" or so). there was a considerable amount of crud under the cap on all the coils so i cleaned them and the connector while i was it. the spark plug wire connector on the coil was clean and looked to have been coated with something to prevent the corrosion on them.
there iare a few drips of goo hanging from the stator and it looks like some has melted down onto the base. mostly a larger coil at the front of the engine and some from the 2 larger ones at the back.
i don't have a socket big enough to fit the flywheel. it appears to be a 1 7/16?
also didn't have any fine thread bolts in my puller.
so still have to deal with the sticking timer base. should i be trying determine if the stator is going also?
thanks in advance

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Those two coils at the rear portion of the stator are the charge coils that supply power/voltage to the powerpack. They are coated with something when new that appears (sometimes) to have runs in it but this does not indicate leakage... so one needs to look at the stator closely.

If either coil has indeed been leaking, melting down a sticky substance upon the timer base and powerhead, then yes, it does require replacing.

 

[brokeboater]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Those two coils at the rear portion of the stator are the charge coils that supply power/voltage to the powerpack. They are coated with something when new that appears (sometimes) to have runs in it but this does not indicate leakage... so one needs to look at the stator closely.

If either coil has indeed been leaking, melting down a sticky substance upon the timer base and powerhead, then yes, it does require replacing.

ok i have stator pulled off to access the timer base to service it (clean/regrease etc). it does appear the stator has melted some onto the top of the motor, assuming it was the current stator. i guess it could have been replaced by previous owner but i kind of doubt it. stator "pickups" are very rusty also. found a wire under the power pack cover that has rubbed down to the conductor.

anyway....what type of grease shall i use? the manual specs a OMC type but what would an equivalent be. it also specs using reg 2 stroke oil on the plastic retainer. i can handle that.....

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: sluggish on accell 200hp johnson

Any kind of anti corrosive grease will do.