Spain

[rogerwa]

Re: Spain

I beleive Spain just became a 'soft Target'. In a very demented way, this benefits us and those in countries that will not take a finger in the eye without responding with a boot up the you know what. You make your bed, you need to sleep in it.<br /><br />I am just amazed at the extent at which the world is not focused on the fact that these people are no different than your common serial killer. Labeling them terrorists give them more credit than they are due. They are common murderers. End of story. The US, not willing to take it anymore, are somehow labled the reason this happened. Arrgh.

 

[pjc]

Re: Spain

Anyone note how the US stock market reacted to the Madrid bombs?<br /><br />This reaction is exactly what the terrorists expect. Disrupt the US as well as global economy.<br /><br />Reality folks, I have stated before and will again. Terrorists are winning due to their disruption of life as we know it.

 

[gaugeguy]

Re: Spain

I wouldn't be too sure it won't happen here again. Our security is really lax. Isreal's security is A1 and they are attacked on a weekly (sometimes daily) basis. And if the goal is to isolate the US, then isn't the US the main target?

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Spain

GG, on a small scale like Isreal/Bahgdad, u r correct...<br />nothin can be done.<br /><br />a large (9/11) scale though is quite diff IMO.<br />fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame<br />on me.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Spain

And the 3rd world war has justed started. I shouldn't have said that by Murphy's law, but it has, in the effect of recognization.<br />WW3 started much longer ago, but like its cousin we now refer to as WW2, wasn't fully acknowledged until the balloon got nice, fat, and ready and popped.<br />We have a few leaders in this world who listen to the advice from people educated in history and apply that knowledge with common sense. They are countered by the feel good, do good, everybody love each other now crowd. The people are easily duped into following the "feel good do good" crowd because that's the easy way out. This crowd does not recognize that pure evil exists in this world. They sleep at night instead of having their throats cut at the expense of the few who understand evil as a legitimate force to reckon. They cower at the first indication of "danger." Yet, they do not realize that they are mortal beings living constantly in danger.<br />Spain is a perfect example of the above.<br />Our "allies" in the EU are once again going to require the blood, treasure, and souls of Americans (and the Brits) to clean up their backyard, including the one that exten<br />ds into Southwest Asia (AKA the "gulf") so they can have lights, heat, transportation, and food. BTW, the US gets less than 35% of its energy from the middle east, while the EU, and Asia (including China) are far more dependant, in excess of 85%. Ahhhhh, watch out for southern Siberia and the Spratley Islands. John Kerry's best ally will likely bang a big one here in the US home sometime around Sep/Oct.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Spain

Just another point as to why Kerry should note be voted for.<br />If he should happen to win, then man the battle stations cause it will be on us like white on rice.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Spain

amen SBN... no way to accomplish it unless he is<br />re-elected IMHO. we's in too deep to go back now<br />and still save face.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

Jim,<br /><br />Well said.<br /><br />I think this time around we should only help those who helped us. <br /><br />I just heard a lady from Europe make some really good points. Europe, she said, takes America for granted. They "expect" America to help with their problems. She cited Kosovo as an example.

 

[marcmccain]

Re: Spain

Ok folks... the Spanish haven't bailed out on the fight against terrorism.<br /><br />Going into the elections the Popular Party (compatable to the Republicans in the U.S.) was leading by a great majority until the bombing. The ecomomy in Spain is the fastest growing economy in Europe and the people didn't want to get involved in the war because they see themselves as the "poor European cousin" and felt like they couldn't afford to play on an international scale. But the bottom line is that three days before the elections the majority were supporting Aznar who supported Bush in the war on terrorism.<br /><br />But just after the bombing, Aznar and his ministers came on t.v. saying that it was the Basque seperaterist group (E.T.A) that did the bombing... E.T.A denied... Aznar's government said that it wasn't anyone other than E.T.A. Well that immediatly cost them the votes in two major provinces. Oh... Al Kaida was actually the folks who did the bombing... So Aznar's party (who was supposed to win) got it wrong. So the people of Spain felt that the current government had either lied to them or that they "didn't have a clue". <br /><br />So when the folks went to the poles on Sunday they didn't elect Zapatero because they were cowed by terrorism. They did a 180 degree turn in three days because it only took them 72 hours to have a strong distrust for the current government. So they elected the Socialist Party (read as Democratic Party in U.S)<br /><br />Now you have a president incumbent who had made a campaign promise to bring home his troops. That promise was made prior to the terrorist attack in Madrid. He now has a delima.. first he has to fulfill a campaign promise to bring home his troops... second he has said he will make the war on terrorism his top priority. <br /><br />I too was suprised to see that it didn't even rate a comment on this board. Neither am I surprised to see that a lot of folks who don't have a full grasp on all the dynamics of the issue become judgemental and think others have abandoned the U.S. Ain't So! Lots of folks support the fight on terroism -- and have been fighting it longer than the U.S. --<br /><br />The Spanish went to the poles and what they did wasn't a message to terrorist. It was a message to their own government. Both parties were shocked by the outcome. Aznar was shocked his party lost and Zapatero was supprised he won. To say the Spanish people rolled rolled over to the terrorist is not correct... but that may be how you want to see it.<br /><br />You compare 3,000 lost in the Twin Towers with only 200 lost in Madrid. Their intent was to blow the train in the Atocha train station which would have killed more than 9,000 people. The train was two minutes late and that is why it blew up before arriving in the station. <br /><br />Between 7 and 10 a.m. every morning, there is a commuter train every 5 minutes on that specific line (only one of many. That specific line moves over 40,000 people from the suberbs of Guadalajars, Alcalá, Torrejon, and San Fernando to Madrid every morning. Between 7 and 10 a.m. there are about 9,000 people in the train station at any given moment as the trains arrive/depart/connect with all the subway lines in the lower levels. We were lucky we only lost 3,000 in the Twin Towers and the Spanish were lucky they only lost 200 in Madrid. <br /><br />The word courage comes from the French word "Cour" which means "heart". So when you say in English "someone doesn't have courage" you're really saying they don't have heart. Some don't have heart because they were born with less than others, others lose heart because of circumsances, yet others don't have heart because they have given all they have and have nothing left to give. So when you "encourage" someone, in reality you are giving them heart.<br /><br />Wars are fought with fluid front lines moving to and fro. It ain't over yet. We all know the the U.S.A., England and Spain are prime targets. I regret to say, yet I know in my heart, that something will happen in London. Then again in the USA and again in Spain and again in England and again and again and again.<br /><br />It's going to be long war against terrorism. So, we can alienate a lot of countries with arrogant half-baked accusations. Or, as an intelligent lot we can encourage folks to rise again and fight the long weary battle. If you've got extra heart, give them some of yours.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Spain

Thanks Warhorse for providing a different perspective for us.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Spain

Good point of view, very well thought out, Warhorse. I respectfully digress and not necessarily from as well a background as yours. Here's my take.<br />Unfortunately, the election of a socialist government is not the answer.<br />Soon, elections may be gone there. I know, the socialist party ruled for a few decades and was just recently voted out, and again voted in. The pressure was too high and the threat of revolt too great. Now, with the risk of having to fight for something becoming real for the average modern Spaniard, socialism is the fallback. This is similar to why Italy caved to the Nazis and became a "socialist" government that radicly and overwhemingly "elected" Mussolini. Of course, we all know how that ended up!<br />Good topic for discourse and would appreciate your opinion.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

I heard that theory postulated and shot down. The reports out of there have been clearly "anti-war" and "Paz" (Peace). The Aznar Gov was thrown out because the Spanish voters think that the attack was the result of supporting the US. They quickly suspected a Al Qaeda connecting due to the early evidence and arrests.<br /><br />The New PM has already said in a speech that the war was a disaster and he will pull out hos troops by June 30 unless the UN moves in. Even if you think there was no Al Qaeda there before the war, there this no doubt they are there now.

 

[pjc]

Re: Spain

to date no response here regarding terrorist activities affect us (globally) or those on this board.<br /><br />interesting???<br /><br />have you been affected economically????

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

This whole nation has been affected economically in a major way since 911. Just look at the costs associated with Homeland Defense, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., etc.,

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Spain

Jinx, I believe the majority of Aussies support John Howard. As with most countries, the protestors get all the media attention and therfore thats what gets reported in the U.S & Europe. We have not had a terrorist incident on our soil so the tide may turn - I hope not. Aldo

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Spain

WARHORSE,<br /><br />He doesn't post often, but he does post well.

 

[JoeW]

Re: Spain

Whatever their response, the Spanish deserve nothing less than our wholehearted condolances for what has happend to them. Spain is an ally and we need to make them feel like an ally. I wish there something that I could do to show my support for them the way so many countries showed support for the U.S. after 9/11.<br /><br />It really doesn't matter what the excuse is for such an attack. It's nothing more than a cowardly way for a few uneducated thugs to draw attention to their miserable lives. What was the excuse before 9/11? <br /><br />We are all infidels in the eyes of these thugs. Religion is simply the vehicle they use to justify their actions, no matter how weak that justification may be. Understand that these people lead miserable lives, and their only hope for redemption is to become famous in the eyes of others who also lead miserable lives. <br /><br />It doesn't matter whether Spain supported the U.S. or not. It may have helped them in their selection of their next target. But, rest assured, there would be another target. <br /><br />So what if their religious excuse were removed? it doesn't matter. If every living human on earth decided to convert to Islam today, and commenced to bow down and pray to Mecca, this group would continue their work. Their excuse would be modified to conform to the situation at hand. Why? Because to cease this activity would be to commit themselves back to obscurity of the miserable existance from which they came. <br /><br />I'm sorry for Spain, and I'm sorry for the next victims of this band of thugs whoever that victim will be. <br /><br />Welcome Spain and all other infidels.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Spain

Great post, Joe. Well written and thought out. I ponder the question of what defines a friend? How much more sacrifice does it take for someone to understand that we really want you to be free, but you don't want to take it? When do we give up, or should we ever give up? How much more should we fertilize their soil with our bodies?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

I was just sitting here thinking, we would have been better off had Spain not supported us than the way it actually turned out. That is, what has happened will cause us more harm than the help they provided. Clearly a case of, "be careful what you wish for." Think about it. Wouldn't we have been better off has they simply sided with France? Now Al Qaeda is emboldened like never before.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Spain

I think everyone is misreading this entire situation.<br />Europeans generally, did not support this war in Iraq, nor was president Bush able to sell it to the Europeans that Iraq was indeed a war on terror. Subsequent events have proved that the reasons stated for going to Iraq were incorrect (either mistaken or worse).<br /><br />The europeans were behind us post 9/11 and into Afghanistan, and after Bin Laden and all. We choose to ignore Bin Laden and take on Iraq, and now we steadfastly refuse to accept that there was any error on our part. As late as last Sunday this administration was on the Sunday shows claiming we still may find the weapons.<br /><br />The Spanish voters were voting their distrust of Bush, shared by most Europeans, and took it out on their own government who appeared to lie to them as well as steadfastly supporting Bush.<br /><br />And what the Madrid blast has shown us is that we have not put even a dent in the capability of the terrorists to strike--We are of course now announcing a push to get Bin Laden, a full 2/12 years after 9/11 and just in time for the US elections. And we wonder why there is a distrust for Bush and his motives and intentions?<br /><br />And the Europeans generally are definitely not Anti-American--but they are generally anti Bush.