Spain

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Spain

Originally posted by Pat Campbell:<br />to date no response here regarding terrorist activities affect us (globally) or those on this board.<br /><br />interesting???<br /><br />have you been affected economically????

Pat, it has not hurt me at all in my business.<br />It is thriving very well.<br />I have heard about all I want on the 9/11 subject.<br />As many of you know from my previous postings, I lost my only brother in that attack and I wish to thank all of you that have brought it back to the forefront of my memory.<br />I am done with this thread and all others that want to use the 9/11 incident as a stepping stone to make their point.<br />Not mad, but rather not relive it anymore than I have to.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

Hey PW,<br /><br />We needed Musharef's support to go into the tribal regions of Pakistan to hunt UBL. We didn't have his support until the attempts on his life coupled with his need to make amends for the nuclear secrets being sold. But let's not think critically about what is really happening as that would spoil the liberal illusion.<br /><br />

The Spanish voters were voting their distrust of Bush

If that is true, my opinion of the Spanish just took a nose dive. For any people to vote on their leaders based on a leader of another country is not very bright.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Spain

The United States of America needs no allies to fight this war on terror,we must stop ***** footing around and trying to be politically correct,we must let our enemies know quite clearly that we will flatten their cities and cast them into oblivion if and when they attack us. These sob's deserves irradication, NUKE EM!NUKE EM! NUKE EM! I would'nt even lose any sleep over such an act had we done that in the Tora Bora region.It would've been for the greater good.<br />Todays world leaders are lilly livered poll driven bureaucrats,the likes of Truman,Churchill and Thatcher will be forever missed by me if not by any of you.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

Elmer, I couldn't agree with anything more. The problem is, we as a nation are divided again. I thought we learned. We did for a while anyway. But, I guess we need to take another big hit to really get the message.

 

[JoeW]

Re: Spain

Plywoody,<br />I'm sorry, but I believe that that it is you that have it all wrong. In fact, I believe that this type of statement that would make most European countries upset at the U.S. Believe it or not, there are countries in this world (like most) that could give a rip about what GW says or does. To imply that the entire populace of Spain would change their vote in order to show opposition to GW is truely an arrogant belief. Is there no end to the liberal assalt on this country and this administration?<br />The next thing you know, the liberals will be blaming GW for us not finding life on Mars.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Spain

BUT, one of your closest Allies in the Iraq war sufferes a shocking act or terrorism, and unless I have missed something here, not one of you have the nuts to raise the topic.

I'm not sure what your point is Phillip. <br />Does it take gonads to tell you war is hell and people die?<br />Does it take a fine set to tell you that anyone of us may not be here tomorrow?<br /><br />Here, let me exibit a magnificent pair for you.<br />Fact is this is a country at war. And body bags come home daily. <br />I have a best friend that spent some time over in Vietnam. He lost an ear and a piece of face with it. His only son Keith, that at the age of 9 shot his first Buck while hunting with me. Keith for years came over to ride horses and help me around here. Keith was deployed to Iraq two months ago and is a squad leader. Yesterday Keiths dad and I cryed together because of the intense fear in a fathers heart.<br /><br />Phillip, would you be sporting mustard seeds if I told you you weren't here crying with his dad and I? Were our tears enough for you Phillip?<br />Yeah, I'm sure there was sorrow when you saw the twin towers fall. But did you sob and sob and cry out in intense anger for days Phillip?<br />You want to debate politics, religion or morals, go right ahead. <br />But if you want to judge us personally and question guts, manhood or dig for sorrow.......I'm your huckleberry.<br /><br />You bet Phillip, I'm very, very sorry for the death of all the innocent of the world. And I'm dang sorry I missed your point.

 

[ezbtr]

Re: Spain

Great post Warhorse, Ladyfish and Skinny! WOW, and also SBN Im so sorry you lost your brother in 911. I remeber just cussing ALL day when I saw the news. ANGER, DISBELEIF, INFURIATION.<br />Bad words. <br />These little fascist/"religious" (what a joke), *******s THRIVE on horror, fear, zealotism, just like the school yard bullies. Yes we do forget so many deaths because sadly now they are so common place - not good. We were very complacent before 911 as we are the greatest and fairest(not perfect though)nation around, we give others many lending hands. We are snapped out of our false sense of security now and have definite focus. Yes we will have more of our sons and daughters killed in this trying time. <br />Now is NOT the time to stop, thats what Al Queda etal would LOVE. Thank god for a good and decent president who realizes this even though it may not be a "popular" front to support. Have we all forgot about Afghanistan and our many troops there that have been there before Iraq?, yup to some degree(media popularity) - not good either, but we SHOULD support ALL our troops everywhere no matter what the political "clime". Sorry to rant, but to make it simple....when my 5 yr old son and I say our prayers at night, we mention our thanks and prayers for the safe return of military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and ANY and EVERY other country were the US is. EVERY NIGHT. God Bless em all, we/THEY are doing a noble duty that I think no other country would even consider , and God Bless all our allies who assist ALL as well.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Spain

First of all- "the entire populace" of Spain did not change their vote. Enough to swing the election did, however.<br /><br />Second, Europeans do indeed care what George W Bush does. And they care what their own leaders do in response to what W does. It is one thing to fight terrorism and terrorists--it is yet another thing to unilaterally embark on a preemptive policy to overthrow governments we don't like, for what appear to be trumped up reasons.<br /><br />And we do indeed need the rest of the world to help fight this war on terrorism. Conquering the world will not, I am afraid, be effective, and will lead to a continued massive distrust of the US.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

First PW, you and others have told us many times that this was a unilateral action - we had no allies. So, why do the people of Spain have a problem at all? Oh, I guess we did have a real coalition after all, is that it?<br /><br />Second, they didn't get voted out because they sent 1,500 troops to Iraq. That is pure nonsense. They did it because they think it made them targets for Al Qaeda.<br /><br />Third, Al Qaeda is already bragging on it's web sites that they overthrew the Spanish Government. Perception in reality. They now have powerful evidence that their Jihad produces results.<br /><br />Lastly PW, please tell me if you honestly believe this will NOT embolden Al Qaeda and lead directly to more attacks. That it will not help them in recruiting. That it will not help them in fund raising. This is a major win for the enemies of humanity.

 

[JoeW]

Re: Spain

Please help me to understand this...<br /><br />Why was it OK to send thousands of U.S. troops to Kosevo to fight against the Serbs, yet we are now chastized for toppling a dictator like Saddam Hussein? <br /><br />Is it because we suspected (mistakenly perhaps) that Saddam was hiding weapons of mass destruction? <br /><br />During WWII the allies suspected that Hitler was developing a nuclear weapon. We were wrong. Does this mean we were wrong to invade western Europe and topple Hitler?<br /><br />Could it be that Kosevo and WWII efforts were led by Democrats? Please tell me if I'm wrong. I don't want to believe that any American would be so shallow and self serving. I sincerely want to understand the logic behind this type of thinking.<br /><br />Plywoody,<br />In your most liberal opinion, what should we have done differently?

 

[JoeW]

Re: Spain

Ralph,<br />Unfortunatly, I believe you are correct. This is a major win for Al Qaeda. The miserable lives that I spoke of in an earlier reply have toppled a government. They are heros in their own minds. I believe this will embolden them to further and possibly more drastic measures. The Prime Minister Elect has already stated that he will withdraw all Spanish troops from Iraq. Not a big number, but a symbolic win for Al Qaeda, nevertheless. <br /><br />Western Europe as well as the U.S. should take note of Al Qaeda's tactics in this effort. It appears that Spain collapsed from within. It was a rotten liberal core that is responsible for the overthrow. What will she do now?

 

[Raghauler]

Re: Spain

Plywoody... your right to express your opinions are certainly welcome, but your opinion is a bit off the mark, as are all Bush haters. You don't need to come up with reasons why you hate Bush. You'll always hate him, regardless of what he does. It's in your soul. We understand.<br /><br />WMD's in Iraq? Who cares. The ends DO justify the means. Let's see, a mad man sent out thugs on a daily basis to collect young women for he and his sons to rape that night, used WMD's in the past against his own citizens, committed attrocities that no sane human can ever accept, for a decade ignored the worlds demands to conform to UN sactions, and had control of a huge chunk of the world's oil supply. And you wanted to keep him, all because you hate Bush? Grow up.<br /><br />Here's another eye opener for liberals. Oil, whether you care to admit it or not, should make a big difference in America's interest on what regimes we want to take on. As a good friend of mine who served in the first Iraqi war taught me... "You're damned straight it's about oil. It's about supporting the standard of living that we have struggled for centuries to create. Take away the oil, and you take away everything that makes our lifestyle so desirable." And I would agree with you that it is wrong to conquer a country to take over it's natural resources, but the fact that we are attempting to remove a madman so a country can produce and sell it's oil to consumers like us, I say that's good business. Shallow? Hardly. It's the way capitalism has always worked, and I don't think it's a good idea to allow lunatics like Saddam to affect hundreds of millions of lives because he wants to be a jerk. His loss. The ends justify the means.<br /><br />I know... Bush lied to us, there were never any WMD's. First, I think he really believed there were. Second, I know, and you know too, that Saddam would have used them the second he had a chance to, just as he did in the 1980's against Iran and his own people. Third, Saddam supported terrorism in the form of monetary rewards to terrorist Palestinians attacking Israel. Even if Bush did knowingly lie, which can never be proven by a "blue dress", at least he is addressing terrorism, unlike our previous administration. No cigars and such in the Oval office, no mailgate, no lost legal documents found in the First Ladies office, no renting out the White House for fund raising, like some sort of brothel. All those things are very impotant, indeed. At least Clinton haters had some pretty good reasons to hate him. But don't worry, your man Hillary will give you another shot of that garbage in four years.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Spain

C'mon ya'll,I know you really don't beleive that PW "Hates" the president do you? he may not agree with the present administration policies on which he voices his opinions,we all state our opinions on this board which are debated quite extensively on many an occasion.Imho one may like or dislike the president for what ever the reason that they may have,but to hate the president is best left to the enemies of America,so that we can bomb their molecules into the paradise which they seek.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Spain

Hey Elmer Fudge,<br /><br />You are a little loose with the nuke em' nuke em' stance don't you think?<br /><br />If Bin Laden was hiding out in the Alaska Wild Life Refuge would you nuke it too?<br /><br />Does flattening a city to kill a few dozen Al Queda really sound reasonable to you?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Spain

All you have to do is listen to the rhetoric and charges leveled at Bush during the primaries to know there are a lot of people in this country (and Canada ) who hate Bush. They hate everything about him and what he stands for. They believe in their hearts that he stole the election (a coup d'état they even called it). They believe his is "stupid" and "simple." And they believe he is a part of the religious right. They hate that he has done so well and they hate the fact that they lost congress at the mid terms. They hate that the country was realigning more to the right under his leadership. In short, the HATE him with every fiber of their being.<br /><br />Many in Europe hate him because he uses Americas strength, told them the truth, and really doesn't care what they think when it comes to the security of this country. They hate the fact that this bastion on capitalism and free markets despite a recession still outperforms their socialistic economies. In short, he told them to go pound sand and they HATE him for it.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Spain

Hey Toad, Given the opportunity, those of Al Queda and their ilk would not hesitate to exterminate us, 9/11 proved it beyond any shadow of doubt,they have no compassion in their hearts for those who hold the mantle of freedom and democracy,that is something which they vehmently abhor.<br />Hiroshima and Nagasaki were flattened and it not only made a point, it saved lives.<br />Such an action showed courage and resolve,unfortunately that is somewhat lacking in todays leaders.<br /> If Bin Laden was hiding out in the Alaska Wild Life Refuge would you nuke it too?<br /><br />I find that comment to be the pinnacle of absurdity, i'll try not laughing.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Spain

Why is my statement absurd? Terrorists are cockroaches among the populous. They don't have a country. You don't nuke the countries, you attack the terrorists and poison and kill them.<br />There are terror cells in the US. Obviously you wouldn't drop bombs on yourself.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Spain

Toad, On our soil,we have the FBI and a host of other intelligent agencies to ferret out the bad guys like they did in Buffalo.<br /> Countries that knowingly and willfully harbor terrorists whose only aim is to hurt and kill Americans deserves nothing less. <br /> Obviously we have a difference of opinion,and i like mine better.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Spain

Originally posted by Elmer Fudge:<br />Obviously we have a difference of opinion,and i like mine better.

Yea I like your's too EF.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Spain

Show me a country that is defiant in supporting Al Queda vs. being against the US at present, and you can consciously go ahead and nuke them. I can't think of any right now. There may discrete connections like Bangladesh for example, but do you nuke the country, or reset your sights? I mean it sure would be a shame for tens of thousands of God fearing people to innocently die at the hands of Americans because of a hunch that a few Muslim extremist thugs might be in the area.<br /><br />You don't even know where Bin Laden is, and you want to send the nukes' a' flyin' ?<br /><br />With that said, I still don't personally think your approach is better. They are just crazier than we can comprehend. For every one you kill, particularly if its in a nuclear manner I guarantee you will create exponential suicide killers. When a suicide killer wants to take somebody out, there is little you can do to stop them. And you just never know when.<br /><br />You have to wonder: Will America (and the world) ever be at peace again? Well I can guarantee one thing that won't help...