Taking Christ out of Christmas

LadyFish

Admiral
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Messages
6,894
It seems that many of us are once again feeling the pressure to take Christ out of Christmas.<br /><br />Despite what the ACLU, the media, employers and some local government would have you believe, Christians do have rights regarding this issue.<br /><br />WHAT ARE THE LEGAL RULES REGARDING KEEPING CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS?<br /><br />Christmas has always been celebrated in America as both a secular and religious holiday. In recent years, secular groups advocating the complete separation of church and state have been circulating misinformation about the legalities of public celebrations of Christmas, seeking to confine Christmas to the church or home and out of the public. As a result, many public officials have been mislead into believing the legal falsehood that Christ must be removed from Christmas in public schools and other public venues. Even some Christians, wanting to be inclusive of others, have acquiesced to confining Christmas to home and church. Christians have sometimes tempered their own verbal greetings and decorations in their own private businesses to reflect this new trend of celebrating a secular "winter festival" instead of the keeping Christmas as the religious holiday that it still should be for them.<br /><br />Despite these new assaults on Christmas, the Constitution does not require public officials to obliterate religious themes or displays from all Christmas observations in public areas. In fact, no court has ever ruled that the Constitution prohibits Christmas carols, Christmas displays, or Christmas greetings in public streets and parks, or in public schools, or commercial establishments. The Constitution does not tell Christians that they must keep the religious aspects of Christmas behind the walls of their churches and homes.<br /><br />What then does the Constitution really require of Christians at Christmas?<br /><br /> 1) The Constitution continues to guarantee both freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion. Therefore, public officials and school administrators may not censor the religious aspects of a national cultural holiday like Christmas. Private religious speech, such as saying "Merry Christmas," even in public or in public schools or workplaces, is protected speech.<br /><br /> 2) Including a religious component to holiday displays and concerts in communities or in public schools does not violate the supposed "separation of church and state," a doctrine often cited by separationists as part of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. In fact, in its most recent cases the United States Supreme Court has stated that the Establishment Clause requires neutrality, not prohibition. Instead of taking Christ out of Christmas, all the government is required to do is to practice neutrality. Therefore, a school or community may have seasonal decorations that include a crèche along with secular symbols of Christmas, such as snowmen, and symbols of other religious holidays, such as the Star of David or a Menorah. The nativity may not be banned while other seasonal decorations are permitted.<br /><br />Ninety-six percent of all Americans celebrate Christmas, according to a recent poll. Despite that overwhelming reality, many local government and school officials have prohibited any religious displays for Christmas. Public school classroom and community decorations often depict only non-religious symbols of a winter holiday, such as snowmen and reindeer. Extremists have even eliminated Santa, candy canes, and Christmas trees because of their peripheral religious connotations. Schools and public areas are eliminating any religious or seasonal music in their winter plays and concerts, and some calendars now refer to the "winter break" instead of Christmas. Many businesses and workplaces have banned the greeting "Merry Christmas" out of a fear of offending the only four in one hundred customers who might not celebrate the holiday. None of these extreme measures are legally required by the Establishment Clause, despite what secular legal organizations hostile to the public recognition of Christianity would have us believe. The reality is that Christmas in America has been both a federal and state-recognized religious holiday for centuries, with no conflict between it and the First Amendment Establishment Clause.<br /><br />YOU HAVE MORE RIGHTS THAN YOU THINK<br /><br />Praying HandsThe following Christmas activities are fully constitutional and may be practiced without fear of violating the doctrine of the separation of church and state.<br /><br /> 1) Your children may sing Christmas carols during holiday concerts in their school, and your community or workplace is not required to ban religious content from their holiday celebrations.<br /><br /> Religious Christmas carols may still be sung in public schools, government or private workplaces, and community celebrations without violating the Constitution. In fact, to completely obliterate religious content from a public program would violate the Constitution's Establishment Clause principle of neutrality between religion and non-religion. Holiday programs should contain additions, not subtractions. It is appropriate to add secular songs and songs that recognize the winter celebrations of other religions. It is not appropriate to subtract the presentation of Christian themes.<br /><br /> 2) Children may give religious gifts to their teachers or to other students, just as government workers and other employees may distribute religious greetings to co-workers. Private businesses, which are not affected by the Establishment Clause, may clearly keep Christ in Christmas without any requirement of constitutional neutrality.<br /><br /> 3) A public school student may write about his own Christmas observations or discuss them in a class presentation, and a teacher is permitted to provide an objective explanation of the religious origins of Christmas to students as part of a curriculum about the cultural and religious aspects of national holidays. Government officials may also recognize the religious aspects of this celebration.<br /><br /> 4) A public school or local community may include religious items in a holiday or winter display.<br /><br /> A classic discrimination in holiday celebrations is for local communities to decide not to include angels or stars in the decorations they place on community light poles or on school bulletin boards. Christians should continue to remind government officials that neutrality requires addition, not subtraction; accommodation of religion, not hostility. According to the United States Supreme Court, even a crèche is an appropriate and constitutional part of a school or community Christmas display.<br /><br />Just so you know, it continues to be constitutional to keep Christ in Christmas.
 

mikeandronda

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
1,888
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Its funny how a teacher can teach the meaning of Christmas but he or she better not teach the Decloration of indapendance the way it was writen an the Orgin of some of the beliefs used to create that..........Hmmmmmmm food for thought here.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Good one LF!<br /><br />I truly believe that people object to religion in the government/schools simply cause they are buttholes that like attention and want to make noise.<br /><br /><br />Ken
 

LadyFish

Admiral
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Messages
6,894
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

I personally feel that there are much more offensive things to hear and say these days than 'Merry Christmas'.<br /><br />In the past there was very little doubt about the right of Americans to publicly celebrate Christmas as a religious as well as secular holiday. It is only in the last few decades that Christian celebrants have felt obligated to hide their faith in the religious meaning of Christmas. Why do many Christians, and their communities and schools, fear to openly proclaim the true, religious, significance of Christmas? We believe the reason for the fear is the confusion generated by "separationists" who would like to convince the public that their public display of faith somehow violates the United States Constitution.<br /><br />"Separationists" are those who believe that openly celebrating the religious meaning of Christmas violates the Constitution by blurring the line between what they believe should be a separation of the roles of church and state. In the last few years, courts have repeatedly been asked to decide lawsuits brought by separationists to try to keep the religious part of the Christmas season out of the public eye. Their claims are generally based upon their mistaken belief that the doctrine of the separation of church and state is somehow violated if government acknowledges in any way that the birth of Jesus is the historical reason for celebrating December 25.<br /><br />Now is not the time to lay down our spiritual arms and surrender to the very small percentage of Americans who are hostile toward Christianity and who want to eliminate Christmas and all things religious from our national life.
 

BrianFD

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
748
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

I agree!<br />Let's keep Christ in Christmas!<br />"He is the reason for the season!"<br /><br />Have a safe and Merry Christmas, Everyone
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Kudos to the Governator for putting Christmas back in the Tree. Gray Davis, the last, wretched, leftist ruler (now recalled, he he he) of California mandated the the State Christmas Tree be called the holiday tree. :mad: <br /><br />BTB, LF, good, timely post. Thanks!
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

I like the phrase "Happy Holidays". I makes the liberal types think you have capitulated to them.<br /><br />In reality, the word holiday has its origins in the term "Holy days". ;)
 

Boomyal

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Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Originally posted by DJ:<br /> I like the phrase "Happy Holidays". I makes the liberal types think you have capitulated to them.<br /><br />In reality, the word holiday has its origins in the term "Holy days". ;)
You're right, DJ. Never connected the dots on that one. Now that you've let the cat out of the bag, all of the Libs and aethiests will be on the hunt for a new politically correct term. :D If they all get rankled by having "under God" in the Pledge of Allegience, just think of the excruciating pain they must be in, living through a month of having Christmas all about them. They probably cower at the sight of Christmas decorations like Dracula recoiled from a silver Crucifix.
 

tcube

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
397
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

I find it most curious that public officials have banned so many Chrisitan displays at Christmastime out of fear. Yet, the most public home in America - the White House (every president has declared it America's home) - is always wonderfully decorated for Christmas. Seems like the most senior public official in the country has never been afraid - regardless of his party affiliation!
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Its crap. I am not religious, but I object to the concept of removing Christ from Christmas. Unless I am wrong, isn't the point of Christmas to acknowledge the birth of Christ. I do believe there was a Jesus Christ, and that he was a great man. Whatever exists beyond that is not for my puny existence to know until it is time for me to know. It makes me sick thinking about the banning of the nativity, no Christmas plays in the schools, all of it. Or are we to believe that Christmas is all about presents and trees and lights? This is one situation where I am in agreement with the religious, things have just gone too far....And yes, I always say "Merry Christmas", not "happy holidays"...
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

From my cold dead hands will they pry the spirit of Christmas.<br />
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snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

I'm with Jason...<br /><br />Merry Christmas..
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<br />Happy Hanukkah..
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NYMINUTE

Captain
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Oct 6, 2003
Messages
3,298
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Those that can DO, those that can't TEACH. My opinion. BTW, my youngest is a teacher. Not in California.
 

spratt

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Oct 13, 2004
Messages
1,461
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

I do not celebrate Christmas as a Religious holiday, simply because history has proven that December was not the true time of year of Christ's birth, and mostly because in the Bible, we are never instructed to remember His birth nor celebrate it, but to always remember His death...having said that, I will NEVER attempt to quell anyone else's right to celebrate whatever they want to celebrate. It is simply my practice, and I feel that things have become turned around, that Christ is not really what Christmas is all about anyway. It is simply a time of year that kids have come to expect to be given anything and everything they ask for, and parents are too willing to go into debt to supply those desires!! Every year, the same old thing...traffice on teh roads and in teh stores caused by shoppers who have been known to trample other shoppers to death to get one of the limited whatevers that are being sold in a limited quantity...and in general, rudeness abounds. Yes, there have been cases of some folks showing an especially swet spirit of goodness and helping, but it is really not the norm...just watch the next time you are in a store that is really busy, at all teh folks pushing and shoving, etc...<br /><br />One thing that really rankles me about Christmas is the Santa Claus LIE...people are too willing to allow Santa to play the part of God intheir lives...oh yes, they are only too ready and willing to tell the kids that there is a guy who is watching adn knows when they are good, or when they are bad, and that it will directly impact their receipt of presents, but do they tell them that there is a God who is watching? Too often NOT!! There is only really one who is watching over us and know our every deed, good or bad.<br /><br />And don't EVEN get me started on a rabbit who hops around and lays eggs in people's yards!!!!! How many know that that celebration was taken from pagans who worshipped fertility gods? And how many know that the worship of Mother and child was originally the worship of an incestual relationship between a mother and son??? It IS talked about in the Bible:)<br /><br />Best stop before every one here falls in hate with me:)
 

Elmer Fudge

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
1,881
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

I like christmas, it's good for the economy of this country now more so than ever.<br />I also like halloween,it's good for the nation's dentists.
 

aspeck

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Staff member
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May 29, 2003
Messages
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Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Story in our church bulletin this week:<br /><br />The “W” In Christmas<br /><br />I recall one December when I found myself exhausted, unable to appreciate the true meaning of Christmas.<br /><br />My son, Nicholas, was in kindergarten and for weeks he’d been memorizing songs for his school’s “Winter Pageant.” <br /><br />The day of the program, I joined other parents who quietly scampered to find seats in the room where the students were seated cross-legged on the floor. One by one, each class, accompanied by their teacher, rose to perform their song.<br /><br />Because the public school system had long stopped<br />referring to the holiday as “Christmas,” I didn’t expect anything other than songs of Santa Claus, reindeer, snowflakes and good cheer. So, when my son’s class rose to sing, “Christmas Love,” I was slightly taken back by its bold title.<br /><br />Nicholas was aglow, as were all his class mates. Those in the front row, center stage held up large letters, one by one, to spell out the title of the song – “C is for Christmas, “H is for Happy,” etc. until each child holding up his portion had presented the complete message, “Christmas Love.”<br /><br />The performance was going smoothly, until suddenly, we noticed her – a small, quiet, girl in the row holding the letter “M” upside down – totally unaware her letter “M” appeared as a “W.” The audience snickered at this little one’s mistake, but she had no idea they were laughing at her, so she stood tall, proudly holding her “W.”<br /><br />Although the teachers tried to shush the children, the laughter continued until the last letter was raised, and we all saw it together. A hush came over the audience and eyes began to widen. In that instant, we understood the reason we were there, why we celebrated the holiday in the first place, why even in the chaos, there was a purpose for our festivities.<br /><br />For when the last letter was held high, the message read loud and clear: “CHRISTWAS LOVE.”
 

NYMINUTE

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Oct 6, 2003
Messages
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Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

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<br /> Come on spratt, Don't be telling me there is no Easter Bunny. What the he** am I gonna do with all these fricken carrots I saved for the the liitle egg bearer.
 

spratt

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Oct 13, 2004
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Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Originally posted by NYMINUTE:<br />
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<br /> Come on spratt, Don't be telling me there is no Easter Bunny. What the he** am I gonna do with all these fricken carrots I saved for the the liitle egg bearer.
I suppose you could give them to your local Easter Bunny farm, or feed them to the kids...don't they tell us that folks who eat carrots have better eyesight???
 

oddjob

Commander
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Jun 19, 2002
Messages
2,723
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Danm Spratt, I bet you tell the plot of all the new movies out there too! :)
 

NYMINUTE

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
3,298
Re: Taking Christ out of Christmas

Originally posted by spratt:<br />
Originally posted by NYMINUTE:<br />
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<br />
I suppose you could give them to your local Easter Bunny farm, or feed them to the kids...don't they tell us that folks who eat carrots have better eyesight???
Well now! Have you ever seen a rabbit with a sight dog?? NO I bet you haven't. Not one with glasses either. No vision care available.
 
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