Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

[RMSBuffalo]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Perhaps they should write these in crayon.. Just a thought.

Jerry

 

[bjperry]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Jerry,

Your dial indicator should have at least an inch of travel. The trick is to stabilize the dial indicator so that when you set TDC to zero you can make several rotations and TDC always reads zero. If it doesn't then your indicator is moving a little each time and you won't be able to find .462 BTDC even if you tried. Once you do that you can follow step #3 of the manual above. My indicator has two sets of numbers at the increments; those for reading the indicator forward and those for reading it backwards. In other words the 10 is also a 90 and the 80 is also a 20. That way when it's winding backwards away from TDC all you have to count is 4 complete rotations then take your needle to 38 or 62 depending on which numbers you're reading (assuming yours has both sets of numbers). This link helps explain how to read them; mine looks just like the one pictured. Notice the double set of numbers (primary black, secondary red).

If someone showed you you'd wonder why it's not clicking. It's just not easy to explain over the forum.

Benjamen

 

[RMSBuffalo]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Um Benjamin...

What link, what picture?????

Jerry

 

[j_martin]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Necessity is the mother of invention........

And poverty, of course, the father.

That's why I figured out how to do it with a 15 dollar menards or wherever digital caliper.

The reason they do it this way is that at .462, which is roughly 45 degrees from TDC, a thousandth of travel is a fraction of a degree. At TDC, a thou is about a degree. It's more accurate.

There's other ways to do it. .150", for instance, is 25 degrees before
TDC. The idle timing setting isn't critical, just approximate. It is changed when you adjust your idle after startup.

I agree, the instructions can be confusing if you don't know the design, and also that many, if not most folks these days don't have the ability or desire to learn the design. They just want paint by number instructions.

The instruction sets that are all pictures drive me up the wall.
The illiterate friendly sign that most irritates me is the one for the library.

hope it helps
John

 

[bjperry]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Sorry Jerry, I forgot to paste the link.

mini-lathe.com/Measurement/Dial_indicators/Dial_indicators.htm

Add "www." to the front and you should be good.

 

[RMSBuffalo]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Okay guys, I guess it comes down to my dreaming up a way to extend the reach of my dial indicator, or to merely stick something else in there and measure the travel, much like Chris.

On a somewhat related note, my son is rebuilding a trim cylinder on a Mercruiser stern drive, and through the bleeding process, the TP manual directly contradicted itself and said in one instruction to lower the outdrive and in the next statement said that "with the trim cylinders retracted"...

Thought this was ironic given the responses in this thread...

Jerry

 

[j_martin]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Retract means to pull back. That would be down, I would think.

John

 

[RMSBuffalo]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

John,

Actually, the outrive goes up when the cylinder is retracted. It goes down when it is extended.

Jerry

 

[j_martin]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

I guess I thunk wrong, then

 

[achris]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

And now you guys all know why we say "GET THE OEM MANUALS!!!" The people who build the engines know better than anyone else how to fix them.....

Chris..........

P.S. On Mercruisers, retracting the cylinders will lower the drive....

 

[RMSBuffalo]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

Okay guys, here it is....

After rigging up a tube that would fit into the cyylinder through the spark plug hole, I marked TDC. Then I used the caliper to mark .462 BTDC then calibrated that point with the timing indicator and the mark on the flywheel. I did have to remove the flywheel and put it back where it originally was.

That being done, I then followed the rest of the procedure from the TP manuals to adjust the timing. After hitting my timing marks and screwing around with crayons etc. to make the marks stand out, I started asking myself..."Why didn't the manual just have me calibrate to TDC? The mark is there, its as high as the piston will go, yet I ended up screwing around with a dial indicator that didn't reach to nearly half an inch below TDC.!!!!!?????Duh!?!?!? I could've found TDC without measuring a damn thing.

Then came the secondary problem (which actually surfaced a week ago), the idle wouldn't drop down to the idle stop and the motor was idling between 1500 & 2000 RPM!

So here I was, the timing was set, hitting the marks as referenced in the manual, yet I couldn't turn the idle down. What I ended up doing wasn't in the manual. I took the rod that connects the idle stop with the carburetor butterfly control off, and found that it was screwed on tooooo tight, pulling the accelerator arm back from the idle stop. After backing this off (actually making the rod longer), it allowed the idle to relax. I then went back to check the timing (which was off), and readjusted it. I am happy to say the motor started right up and sounds greatttt!!!!

She's revving a lot smoother, idling at about 950 RPM (in neutral), and we're set for sea trials in the morning, weather permitting. I am soooo excited!

This boat was a major project, as I bought it from behind a boat store 3 years ago. It's a 24' Glastron Sea Fury II walk around cuddy. I paid $200 for this puppy and she was laying flat on her hull in a field. She had the Mariner 200 attached which miraculously started right up when we first brought her home. This motor has always seemed fine, and the seller really didn't know anything about it, just took it in trade and threw it in the field.

Since then, I've put in a full Mahogany deck, built a reversible bench seat from scratch (teak), built teak cabin doors, refinished the cabin(still not quite done), and reinforced the transom. My son did a wicked job wet sanding and polishing her, and now the motor sounds great!

Thanks to all who helped on this thread. Even those who may not have given a pinpoint answer, you helped in getting the thought process to proceed.

One note of consequence...
After working on this boat for years, I can honestly say I would never, ever, buy a Glastron boat (for market price). While mine is nice and will probably outlive all production models, it is only by my modifications and reinforcements. Fact is, I can't believe some of the crappy construction methods used on this boat. Granted it's a 1980 model, but they actually laminated the fiberglass decking over particle board! What a shock the particle board rotted away and caused the deck to become uneven. Open seams on the transom (covered with alluminum trim). Unbelievable.

Once again guys, thanks for the group assist. I'll report back after sea trials and maybe even post a couple of pics of her.


Jerry

 

[j_martin]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

The reason for the .462 routine is given in my reply #24. It's an accuracy thing.

A lot of the older boats have serious issues with unprotected wood, or worse (OSB). Some are worse than others. I just replaced the transom in my 88 tracker because the transom cap seam was protected with bath tub caulk, which failed, and the aluminum trim then became a guide to be sure every drop of water that hit the top of the transom got into the wood. (sheesh)

What amazes me is it is a safety issue on high performance boats.

Many modern high performance boats don't have any wood in them at all.

Hope you have fun with your boat
John

 

[RMSBuffalo]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

John-

In response to your comment in reply#24 (illiterate signs), have you noticed the brail on the drive thru ATMs?

When we did the sea trials on the boat, she seemed to run a lot better, but chokes out when I try to go above 2000 RPMs. Haven't had a chance to check the troubleshooting in the TP manuals yet due to family obligations.

Jerry

 

[j_martin]

Re: Timing marks wayyyy off 200 hp mariner

John-

In response to your comment in reply#24 (illiterate signs), have you noticed the brail on the drive thru ATMs?

When we did the sea trials on the boat, she seemed to run a lot better, but chokes out when I try to go above 2000 RPMs. Haven't had a chance to check the troubleshooting in the TP manuals yet due to family obligations.

Jerry

No, i didn't notice, but now I have to deal with coffee in my keyboard.

On second thought, there are people that walk up to and use a drive through after hours, perhaps even a blind one. As you know, you have to redesign the whole durned town to compensate for the needs of 1 handicapped person.

On the above 2000, try pumping the primer when it's acting up. (fuel issues)
If that don't help, and it isn't leaving a slick like a ruptured tanker, it's ignition.

try disconnecting the "advance module" just for a test
Do the dvm tests on the stator and switchboxes.

hope it helps
John