Timing retarded? Force 125

[pastorbud]

I am trying to set the timing on my Force 125 with Prestolite ignition. It's giving me fits. It is still firing the #1 cylinder too retarded, according to the Force manual. I watched Frank's video, but still can't get it right.

The timing light shows the 28 degree mark to the left of the pointer. I kept increasing the advance, and it moved closer. But eventually I hit the limit of the advance. Even with the trigger pegged (advanced as much as possible), it still fires with the 28 degree mark about 1.5 inches to the left (as you sit in the boat and face the transom) of the pointer.

The ending was running before, just not right, and I had some problems with the shifter cable, which I fixed.

I also recently replaced the CD boxes. At first I thought maybe I had the trigger wires or the wires to the coil mis-matched. But everything looks right.

The flywheel has never been off, but I checked TDC anyway, and the mark lined up at 0 degrees as expected.

 

[pastorbud]

I did install new CD boxes from Standard Magneto. They seem to be firing good, and I don't think that would effect timing, unless I wired them wrong.

 

[Redbarron%%]

Make certain that the linkage to the trigger is installed correctly.
It may be limiting the amount of advance from the tower.
I had a similar problem with my Sport Jet 90 and the ling at the top was on the wrong side of the shaft.

 

[pastorbud]

Thanks. It's set up the same as in this diagram.

 

[pastorbud]

I still can't do links right.

 

[pastorbud]

This diagram

 

[pastorbud]

The weird thing is, even with the linkage disconnected, if I push the trigger all the way to the right (counterclockwise), it still reads as too retarded. I've maxed out the advance, and it's still not advanced enough. Even if the linkage could push it further, the trigger wouldn't advance any further. It's turned as far as it can turn in that direction.

 

[pastorbud]

I also tried moving the trigger the other way, thinking maybe I was "correcting" the wrong direction. Problem got worse, which is what I expected.

 

[Redbarron%%]

I got nothing more if manually moving the trigger won't get enough advance.
Might pull the flywheel and look at what is going in there.
The trigger picks up the signal from the inner ring of the flywheel and if the trigger is moved more advance it must pick up the signal even if it goes all the way around the crankshaft.
I assume you have the correct trigger if there are more than one that will fit.
On my engine the link was wrong.
Check the flywheel key as a backfire might have sheared it or partially sheared it and retarded the flywheel

 

[pastorbud]

I thought maybe I have the wiring wrong to the CD boxes, but I disconnected the trigger wires from the number one CD box, and the number one plug stop firing, so I have the right Trigger firing the right plug.

I would be surprised if the flywheel shifted. When I put the number one piston at TDC, the TDC mark on the flywheel is in the right place.

 

[pastorbud]

I just fired it up, and the engine runs fine in the backyard. Test run tomorrow, Lord willing.

 

[jerryjerry05]

How are you trying o set the timing? Running? or static timing?

 

[pastorbud]

Static. I have the plugs out and grounded, and am cranking the motor with a test switch on the relay. Ignition is on and plugs are firing.

I have the timing light sensor clipped to the #1 plug wire.

 

[pastorbud]

Cranking with WOT.

 

[pastorbud]

Well we took it out this afternoon. It has sparked on all four cylinders, but under power with the throttle wide open, it is still about 20° out on the retarded side. I've checked everything but the flywheel and trigger, so that's next.

 

[pastorbud]

Man, that flywheel ain't gonna come off easy.

 

[jerryjerry05]

I use a 3 jaw puller and a 1/2" impact wrench and a 3# hammer.

If the keyway's stripped? it can make the wheel harder to remove.
You might need a torch too.

 

[pastorbud]

I got nothing more if manually moving the trigger won't get enough advance.
Might pull the flywheel and look at what is going in there.
The trigger picks up the signal from the inner ring of the flywheel and if the trigger is moved more advance it must pick up the signal even if it goes all the way around the crankshaft.
I assume you have the correct trigger if there are more than one that will fit.
On my engine the link was wrong.
Check the flywheel key as a backfire might have sheared it or partially sheared it and retarded the flywheel

Redbarron%% wins the prize for online diagnosis. Got the flywheel off with a bid Maddox puller (from Harbor Freight, I know, I know), and the hammer torch, etc., per recommendation of jerryjerry05.

The key gave way and the flywheel spun on the shaft. Damaged the magnets inside the flywheel, too.

So, I have a flywheel I can rob from the 150 I'm resurrecting, and a trigger and stator from my parts motor in the garage.

I hope to reassemble after work tomorrow, and try it out on Independence Day. Woo-Hoo!

 

[jerryjerry05]

That flywheel should have the long magnetic strip.
Just clean it and glue I back in place??

 

[pastorbud]

Magnets are cracked. I'll post pictures.