To the bottom of the Lark

[jimmbo]

The knife edge connector covers, from the factory, were like hoses that would slide over the connection. I guess someone in the past put heat shrink on them.
Give all the bearings a thorough inspection, suspect a few are going to be in need of replacement.
Here is a link to one of the best service sections for your gearcase
http://162.144.28.33/lib/johnson/man...nson.html#/500

Interesting, in IE, the forward and back buttons to flip the pages appear. but in Chrome they don't. Pages can still be flipped by grabbing the upper/lower corner and dragging it over.

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

The knife edge connector covers, from the factory, were like hoses that would slide over the connection. I guess someone in the past put heat shrink on them.

Thanks for the link, appreciated. I was expecting to find the same type of rubber tube as was fitted to the to the top of the cable in the cover. When I saw the plastic heat shrink I thought "crap, someone cut off the knife connectors and spliced in a couple of crimped butts". Was pleasantly pleased to see the original connectors after all. I thought that maybe the plastic was found to be sturdier in the oil and vibration environment than the rubber sleeves. - Pete

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

I got into the gearcase today.The gears look fantastic, All the needle bearings look fine. The springs are all intact a show no distortion. I have not attempted removal of the forward coil and tapered bearing from the gearcase itself or the lower pinion bearing and roller thrust washer or the upper pinion needle bearing because this is all into special tool territory and what I've read seems to suggest damage from removal will always result meaning automatic replacement.

As I mentioned in earlier post in this thread. There was some non-magnetic swarf and evidence of metalic sheen in the oil. As dismantling progressed more became evident. the larges bit is probably 1mm x .5mm and thin like a piece of tinsel. All of it appears to be bronze and as far as I can tell (the gear assemblies are not dismantled yet) the only thing in there that is bass is the thrust washer just inside of the bearing hub that lies up against the reverse coil. Thing is, that thrust washer was perfect with barely a hint of a shine of wear. I am thinking that it is a replacement for one that was wiped out in the past and the gearcase was never flushed/cleaned properly leaving some shaved bronze from the original behind for me to discover now. Does this sound plausible? Is there anything in there that is bronze beside that thrust washer? - Pete

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

Is there anything in there that is bronze beside that thrust washer? - Pete

After further disassembly I find the forward gear bearing is also brass. My Seloc manual claims babbitt but it is solid brass. It is also in near new condition though, with just a bit of shine. It is definitely not the source of the metal bits in the oil and gear box housing cavities. At this point I'm thinking this junk is left from poor cleaning after some sort of earlier thrust bearing or forward gear bearing failure. None of it is magnetic, all of it is brass. - Pete

 

[jimmbo]

If you are finding metal in the case, a complete disassembly should be done, that means the front coil and complete bearing, and the ones in the upper gear housing, all need to come out for inspection. It might be junk from a previous repair, but what if it isn't?

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

I hear what you're saying jimmbo, but since I have none of the special tools required to either remove or install these bearings and the fact that the manual claims damage from removal will necessitate replacement anyway, I am a bit reluctant to just tear into it more than I have. Again, the only flecks in the oil and those settled in the nooks and crannies of the case are bronze. No magnetic steel at all so my logic is, since gears and bearings are steel, none of the flecks come from them. And apparently since there are only the bearing head thrust washer and the forward gear bearing that are bronze. The bronze flecks have to come from these parts, but again these two parts just removed and inspected look virtually brand new so I can only surmise the flecks came from earlier failed examples of one or both parts. I think it's likely the thrust bearing failed because that would have been the easiest to replace with not much work and would also account for the tech to easily skip over cleaning out the case. The present thrust washer in particular only looks to have a couple hours on it, period.

The 20 rollers from the lower pinion bearing look like they just came out of a new OMC package. It's upper bearing looks beautiful as well. Every part in there looks absolutely excellent .

 

[racerone]

???---The forward thrust bearing is a tapered roller bearing.----The rear thrust washer rarely has any significant loads on it !!----Using the factory tools ( have not used them in 20 years ) does not damage the parts in any way.-----Those SELOC / Clymer manuals belong in the wee house with the moon in the door.

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

???---The forward thrust bearing is a tapered roller bearing.----The rear thrust washer rarely has any significant loads on it !!----Using the factory tools ( have not used them in 20 years ) does not damage the parts in any way.-----Those SELOC / Clymer manuals belong in the wee house with the moon in the door.

So what's bronze besides those two parts? I don't believe there's any alchemy going on in the case. Steel flecks are not turning to gold in there. And I never said "factory tools", I mentioned special tools as in pullers and presses. The Seloc manual is what I have. It may have limitations compared to the factory manual (and in fact I do see the far more detail in service manual link jimmbo provided), but it has allowed me to get this far with accurate info.
Come on racer, give me a break. I've worked on old British motorcycles for probably as long as you've worked on outboards. If you were ever to get an old Norton and asked me for advice, you would not find it constructive if my replies reflected how much I knew and you didn't. I'm just trying to work myself through this motor in a practical way without throwing endless money and time at it and making it my life's work. - Pete

 

[F_R]

I am going to make a guess that the brass chips came from somebody in a prior life removing the brass drive shaft seal with a drill or Dremel, or similar and the chips fell downward. Gravity, y'know.

I see no reason for removing the forward coil or tapered bearing. Or any of the needle bearings either. Everybody knows, or needs to know that you must always press on the lettered end of a needle bearing to install it. Pushing or beating on the other end to remove it is likely to destroy it. Yes, I've done that. Live and learn.

I say wash that thing out real well and put it back together.

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

I

I say wash that thing out real well and put it back together.

That's what I'm leaning to.
One bearing I am looking at replacing is the lower driveshaft bearing P/N 378578. It is located just below the waterpump. Apparently it is greased on assembly for life and without any gear oil ever being able to reach it? Surprising.
It still has grease but seems a little sticky and the needles can be tilted a little bit with a small pick.

 

[racerone]

That bearing is lubricated by gear oil.

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

That bearing is lubricated by gear oil.

That's good news, I was wondering about that. The 6 1/2" or so below that bearing, down to the upper pinion bearing looked like clean and dry cast aluminum. I suppose since the motor has spent the last 15 years on a stand, all visible traces of oil has long since oozed down that tunnel leaving it dry looking. Good! Can that bearing be tapped out with a long drift? - Pete

 

[racerone]

Bearings in aluminum housings often fall out when heat is applied.

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

Good point. I'll try that. I feel this bearing is one that is not in the best of condition. I can stick my little finger in there and twist one way then the other. The needles are left leaning in the last direction of twist when I take my finger back out. Kind of sloppy I think. - Pete

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

Bearings in aluminum housings often fall out when heat is applied.

After finally fussing out the driveshaft seal and bearing ( tried heat but had to use a Dremel to cut through the race), I got to cleaning and flushing and blowing it all out. Now that everything is free from any lube I can tell the flat needle bearing thrust washer that's located between the two pinion needle bearings (the small caged one and the larger one with the 20 rollers) is shot. It's obviously very notchy when turning slowly with fingers.Will heat release that larger pinion bearing cage? And how much. Heat gun? propane? mapp gas? oxy acetylene? Once the race is out of the case the bad thrust bearing will drop out. - Pete

 

[racerone]

Heat always helps me to remove bearings.---Your results may vary !

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

Heat always helps me to remove bearings.---Your results may vary !

Very honest. Thanks. - Pete

 

[Cadillac-ack-ack]

Heat did help me pop out the lower pinion bearing race and I found that the notchy thrust bearing was more bronze flecks caught there. Both the two thrust washers and the flat thrust bearing were all fine. Needed to take the two blind split rings from the pinion bearing race thought because there was more flecks jammed in there. Amazing and lucky all the involved bearing are fine including the tapered roller in the nose.The steel bearing parts are obviously a lot tougher than the bronze.

I find it curious that in both the Seloc manual and the factory manual (thank's jimmbo) the procedure for the lower pinion bearing race is simply to press it or tap it in. It occurred to me that if one should install it that way, pressing or tapping it all the way home would end up locking the thrust bearing assembly solid causing the pinion to turn on the bottom thrust washer. I'm guessing a minimum of 1mm or so space is what's needed? Any ideas on installing the forward coil without special tools would be appreciated. Some more heat maybe? - Pete