Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

jimmbo

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

So much easier and satisfying to modify a Carbed engine
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

And since the motor is limited to about 5000 RPM, all a ported throttel body will do is cause low and mid range torque to fall (exactly what you dont need) because the velocity drops. And if the ECM has not been reprogrammed, the motor can not compensate for it at low RPM and will not take advantage of it at high RPM. In fact I am willing to bet that there is now a lean condition just off idle
 

jimmbo

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

If an engine the engine is limited to 5000 rpm and the TB was properly sized in the first place, Is there any real gain by using a larger TB, other than lower torque at low Rpms?
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

If an engine the engine is limited to 5000 rpm and the TB was properly sized in the first place, Is there any real gain by using a larger TB, other than lower torque at low Rpms?

yes, the company that sold the throttle body gained a sale and some proffit. the same gain that is gotten from putting a large wing on the back of a honda civic
 

jimmbo

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Bragging rights about the 'higher performance' TB now on the engine too. Even if it does go slower
Sort like putting two Holley 850 Double Pumpers on to a Chevy 283 that never spins faster than 4800
 
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MikDee

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

yes, the company that sold the throttle body gained a sale and some proffit. the same gain that is gotten from putting a large wing on the back of a honda civic


Yeah but in order to get the wing to work right, you must put on a fart can with a 6" diameter exhaust tip! :lol:
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Yeah but in order to get the wing to work right, you must put on a fart can with a 6" diameter exhaust tip! :lol:

and the stickers..... dont forget the stickers....
 

Walt T

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

A friend of mine and I decided to fool with his son's 79 Plymouth Satellite with a 318 in it by putting "Holley Racing" "Hedman Headers" "Hooker Headers" (Hey one type header for each side :) ) on the back window and put an air cleaner lid from a 440 that had a cool Mopar sticker on it. The kid swore the car was faster.
 
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Naf

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp


Wrong type of TB. Ours is like the 4.2 envoy / trailblazer. I have a slightly larger on, where the blade matches the manifold opening, but i need to make an adaptor plate to merge the two together...

By Porting and opening up the passage way before the intake runners, i am allowing more air in, thus helping the lower torque and max hp see their true potential. If i were to port the runners in the head then yes i sacrifice low end power for top end power, but that is not the case.

Why do ppl who install 1.6 rockers vs 1.5 see more bottom end torque? For more VE is increased due to more peak valve lift. This whole idea of you gaining two more degrees of duration is crap, you gain more lift thus your heads flow more air, to a point you heads can only flow so much, and you get more low to mid torque. With an increase in VE the more power you will make across the range.

VE is volume efficiency...

Think mcdonalds milkshake straw vs normal straw. You can inhale more fluid and quicker.
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

NAF, your boat motor is not a car motor. you do not apply the same principles to a boat motor.

you need to think more along the lines of a tow truck motor pulling a 8000# load up a 10% grade against the wind constantly. vs a screaming 1/4 drag motor which is where your thought process is.

also, with any of the modifications you have done and are talking about, you still havent reprogrammed the ECM. so all you are doing is taking a good running motor and messing it up

yes you are allowing more air in than the motor will ever be able to use. the ECM doesnt know it though, so you are actually loosing power everywhere with the possible exception at the very top end.

you motor has a VE of about 0.8 if its lucky. the CFM needed to run your motor is only about 425CFM. porting your TB did nothing to help your motor or the way it runs. it only helpped you with bragging rights that you have a ported TB and that you now have crappy low end torque. your boat is not a Camaro or Firebird running mass flow feedback. its a truck motor in a boat running speed density fuel mapping.

the motor and ECM tune was optomized with all the parts that come with the motor from GM.

can you improve it - yes. you can stroke it, you can improve the piston quench area, you can change the cam, then you need to tune the motor to take advantages of all the changes.
 
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Bondo

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

VE is volume efficiency...

Ayuh,.... 'n unless you junk the exhaust Manifolds, 'n go to full on Headers, yer doin' Nothin',...

The common plenum of the exhaust manifolds, is the Choke point of a SBC, in a boat,...
 

Walt T

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Naf likes what his buddies tell him and not what we tell him so I imagine he'll ask them what they think about what we say and not knowing marine demands on engines they'll talk about improving breathing on a 6500 rpm engine mostly just trying to impress each other with their knowledge which I am sure is substantial but it just doesn't apply here. He doesn't want to pull the motor, jest looking for a quick cheap and easy boost. I say go take some Viagra and leave the boat alone.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Wrong type of TB. Ours is like the 4.2 envoy / trailblazer. I have a slightly larger on, where the blade matches the manifold opening, but i need to make an adaptor plate to merge the two together...

By Porting and opening up the passage way before the intake runners, i am allowing more air in, thus helping the lower torque and max hp see their true potential. If i were to port the runners in the head then yes i sacrifice low end power for top end power, but that is not the case.

Why do ppl who install 1.6 rockers vs 1.5 see more bottom end torque? For more VE is increased due to more peak valve lift. This whole idea of you gaining two more degrees of duration is crap, you gain more lift thus your heads flow more air, to a point you heads can only flow so much, and you get more low to mid torque. With an increase in VE the more power you will make across the range.

VE is volume efficiency...

Think mcdonalds milkshake straw vs normal straw. You can inhale more fluid and quicker.

GM Performance :: View topic - Vortec L31 MARINE MANIFOLD project! Q&A

I wouldn't mess with that manifold it is not a choke point as pointed out eailer the exhaust is the stumbling block and only above 5500---6500
 

Naf

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Naf likes what his buddies tell him and not what we tell him so I imagine he'll ask them what they think about what we say and not knowing marine demands on engines they'll talk about improving breathing on a 6500 rpm engine mostly just trying to impress each other with their knowledge which I am sure is substantial but it just doesn't apply here. He doesn't want to pull the motor, jest looking for a quick cheap and easy boost. I say go take some Viagra and leave the boat alone.

Thats offensive and you know it...If i wanted a cheap approach i would have bought the magnum boot for a couple hundred dollars and ran the engine till it died. I am looking for more bottom end hp to get the boat onto plane quicker...

If i were to get everything i said you are lookin at 2000 dollars in parts and probably another 600-1000 in labor. Not to mention a week of tunin on the water for proper running.

I am not worried about warranty nor do i claim on it either.

GM Performance :: View topic - Vortec L31 MARINE MANIFOLD project! Q&A

I wouldn't mess with that manifold it is not a choke point as pointed out eailer the exhaust is the stumbling block and only above 5500---6500

Close, but thats the 3 bolt configuration, i have the four bolt throttle body. Its slightly larger in dia but uses the same mpfi idea.

I may just yank the engine out and install a 6.2 GM marine LSA engine. I know the engine, i can tune it properly, and its not old tech with a new coat of pain on it...
 

Walt T

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

I apologize I didn't mean to offend anyone. I do tend to run at the mouth (ok keyboard) at times.
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Naf,

please understand, it doesnt matter the specifics of which throttle body. you messed up your motor by running a ported throttle body. your boat cant use it, and all you have done is ruined the low and midrange torque, which is what you need. your motor probably ran fine, then you changed props to get a higher top end (while sacrificing the low end). then you wanted more speed and installed a ported TB and the motor fell on its face on the bottom end.

you came here looking for answers. we gave you answers, however you still have not corrected the issue and continue to ignore the advise we have given while giving flippant comments about

I may just yank the engine out and install a 6.2 GM marine LSA engine. I know the engine, i can tune it properly, and its not old tech with a new coat of pain on it...

if you install the 6.2 and mess with that, it sounds like you will mess that up too.

these are boat motors and not car motors. Any tuning you think you know on car motors does not apply here. Boat motors are loaded all the time, built for torque not speed (small TB, small valves, etc.) and are at the edge of detonation all the time. Remember, a team of engineers from both Mercury and Volvo both have spend thousands of hours getting the motors to a state of tune.

spending $2000 is nothing. everything in boating is Break Out Another Thousand. your talking installing a marinized LSA motor and that is about $14000 complete with mandatory heat exchangers, etc. plus labor and complaning on spending $2k

If you want to gain power back to low end with your setup, then do the following all at the same time:
put in 89 octane fuel
instal the original TB
instal the orignal F5 props

if you want more power across the board for about $2k, stroke your SBC to a 383 (6.2liter), use the correct pistons to increase quench, reprogram your ECM then install your F6 props back on the boat.
 

MikDee

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

I quote "Scott Danforth here, If you want to gain power back to low end with your setup, then do the following all at the same time:
put in 89 octane fuel
instal the original TB
instal the orignal F5 props"

This sounds logical, & sensible to me. It seems your motor can not put to use the mods you installed at lower rpm's, like it's trying to play catch up there, but can't. This is just like overcamming, or overgearing. an engine.
 
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jimmbo

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Re: Upgrading Power on 5.7 300hp

Ayuh,.... 'n unless you junk the exhaust Manifolds, 'n go to full on Headers, yer doin' Nothin',...

The common plenum of the exhaust manifolds, is the Choke point of a SBC, in a boat,...

Gil Marine used to make some wet Exhaust manifolds that weren't common plenum. They were for MerCruisers but might adapt to VP. IMCO also made hi perform manifolds for the Sm blk chevy
 
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